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--paddy--
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PostSubject: BTCC 2013   Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:10 am

So the new season is upon us:

who is going to which meetings? What are the expectations and the predictions.

I am looking at Donington in April, bit of a drive but go with a mate, Cal, Nick, etc anyone else going that meeting?
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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:19 am

I'm going to Brands Hatch for the first round.

I find it nice that main paddock access is free, whereas at DTM they feel the need to charge you £12.

I can't wait - this season is going to possibly be the best motor racing on the planet.

11 different brands of car, revenge, wrecks, bumping, safety cars - the BTCC has it all.

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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:54 am

i'm going to Donington for the weekend, went to the media day afternoon session on Thursday, it was a bloody cold wind. Did think of Brands next week but i think the weather will still be crap, certainly not camping weather!
I also hope to make it to Croft, maybe Knockhill, Rockingham and Brands finale in Oct.
I find that the lack of access to the drivers as you can't get behind the pits at Brands a bit frustrating, but other than that and having to do the Dartford Crossing, i love Brands. (and maybe the boggy campsite after last October...)
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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:01 am

No Snetterton?
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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:07 am

Having been for the last 5 years i think we're giving it a miss, ever since the track was changed and us campers were turfed from the infield to outside the track it's not been as good, and whilst i wanted to do Knockhill, Elaine is having difficulty getting the time off for us to make a week of it and have a few days in Scotland as well.
Thruxton clashes with Donington Historic Festival so that's out as well.
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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:28 am

Bloody Donnington, can't make buying tickets simple!

Do you lot get from box office or get tickets sent? Snetterton sent them for a quid when I went few years ago!
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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:05 am

I got mine last week at media day so i didn't have to pay postage. I think they use see tickets to do their tickets online.
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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:34 pm

I'm going through Donington website...
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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:28 pm

Jordan on pole, snow hit qualifying, Turkington and Goff didn't even get a lap in and start at the back, Wrathall failed the ride height test and loses P6. 27 cars round Brands Indy is gonna be busy later on....
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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:45 am

BTCC rarely fails to be anything other than spectacular, as today’s action proved.

Jason Plato drove brilliantly in race 1 and 2, despite Andrew Jordan trying to pass him at Clearways. Jordan wasn’t far enough on the inside, Plato had already started to turn for the corner.

Frank Wrathall was rather pushing his luck, punting two drivers off. His move on Turkington was a bit desperate, Turkington defended the corner well enough, but Wrathall lunged up the inside and could never have got stopped properly. Frank got a taste of his own medicine when he tried to hit Shedden, that was amusing.

Sam Tordoff was quite impressive; he had enough confidence to put the bumper to Matt Neal in Clearways. It’s good to see a competitive teammate at Triple Eight – miles better than Neate.

The BMW 125i had a reasonable first outing, considering it is a new car. It had decent speed during races, but the Ebay cars got punted a number of times. I think the car is a solid platform to develop.

I’m not sure if the mandatory ‘option’ tyre rule really enhances the spectacle. F1 needs such measures because those are high downforce cars where overtaking is more difficult. BTCC has no overtaking problems, and it’s not really a ‘strategy’ sport.



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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:35 am

F1 doesn't need a softer tyre either.


And overtaking in f1 is easy. Look at the first too races year there has been loads.


Actually f1 thought

Qualifying tyres one or two sets a race at most
No pitstops (unless punchure/damage/weather)
More power

Let them race on the track.
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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:47 am

Presumably, the option tyre in BTCC aims to give more wear to some cars, making those cars slower over a race distance and thus increasing overtaking. But BTCC hasn’t got an overtaking problem, there would just be as much overtaking as if there was a single compound for everyone.

In previous years, I’m not sure anybody could complain about the lack of passing in BTCC. It isn’t a strategy sport, and I think rules like this are unnecessary. Yesterday saw plenty of racing between cars on the harder compound. BTCC is a contact, rough and tough sport – not a strategic game.

At least this year, Pirelli’s tyres in F1 significantly degrade, which suits some cars and not others. The grip and car difference has created that great racing. I think F1 has a balance to strike, with how aero-dependent the cars are, trick-tyres and DRS are simple ways to promote overtaking. However, pitstops aren’t so bad, because the alternative is drivers trundling around, and that won’t be fun to watch and the fastest drivers don’t get rewarded.

As for more power, I don’t think so anymore. F1 cars now produce in excess of 800 bhp, and are still traction limited on many corners.

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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:41 am

People have this outdated idea of cars not pitting means a prosession but it doesn't. The pitstops cause it. Before there were pitstops you had to try and overtake now you wait to the stop and jump forwards.

With drs and Kers passing is easier and racing would be more like btcc today (good) than it has been since the pitstops was introduced at a strategic tool (bad)

Btcc was decent today except Plato winning. Btcc really needs to look at its post race ride height rules when a car is damaged but hey, I even liked the softer tyres.
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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:02 pm

the usual incidents at Brands Indy really, it's hard to make clean passes around there in equal cars, often btcc overtaking is a nudge of the car in front's rear to destabilize it. Plato, Neal and Shedden are all very good at it!
Frank Wrathall was very forceful all weekend, but it bit him in race 2. The Turkington incident was very reminisent of the Plato/Newsham one from last year, The Austin one at Druids was a bit clumsy, however he did make good progress from the back in both r1 and r3 and has said he doesn't want to make the numbers up this year.
Rob Austin appears to have the least luck, great R1 result followed by lots of damage to his car because of other competitors. R3 crash was nasty looking and was good to see him get out ok. Hopefully he will make it out for Donington.
Was impressed with both Sam Tordoff and Jeff Smith, both had good results.
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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:25 pm

Quote :
People have this outdated idea of cars not pitting means a prosession but it doesn't. The pitstops cause it. Before there were pitstops you had to try and overtake now you wait to the stop and jump forwards.

With drs and Kers passing is easier and racing would be more like btcc today (good) than it has been since the pitstops was introduced at a strategic tool (bad)

That sounds nice in theory, but in reality, creating a tyre that would not only last the whole distance, but degraded faster enough to create differences in cars would be tricky. Tyre stops were banned in 2005, and it didn’t enhance the spectacle to a great degree.

Today’s pitstops are no longer the overtaking method they used to be. When refueling was allowed, it was a race in the pits. Previously, from qualifying onwards each race was based around fuel amount. Teams now have little choice but to pit, and the only differentiator is tyres – not fuel.

Australia and Malaysia were both very well fought races with a lot of overtaking, and the pitstops didn’t detract from that. Tyre management was rewarded so well in OZ when Raikkonen made fewer pitstops than Alonso/Vettel and won the race.

I get what you’re saying about the racing being on the track and not in the pits, but banning refueling was the biggest factor in that. I hated refueling, with the crappy ‘light’ fuel loads that drivers used to run, and teams short-fueling to gain track position.




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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:29 pm

Quote :
the usual incidents at Brands Indy really, it's hard to make clean passes around there in equal cars, often btcc overtaking is a nudge of the car in front's rear to destabilize it.

It is indeed, the only option is to put the bumper to someone, but I kind of like that. It’s like the bull-ring of road courses is Brands Indy. Forcing someone off line on the exit of Clearways looks to be a favourite move. Brands Indy is like Bristol or Martinsville in NASCAR, when it comes down to it - the only way past is to use the bumper.

Quote :
Frank Wrathall was very forceful all weekend, but it bit him in race 2. The Turkington incident was very reminisent of the Plato/Newsham one from last year,

Last year, Plato seemed to be further alongside Newsham than Wrathall was alongside Turkington. Last year, Newsham made the error of not giving Plato room, especially because Plato was alongside before turn-in. Yesterday, Turkington defended the line, but Wrathall hauled up the inside and looked out of control. I don’t think Plato was out of control last year.

Quote :
The Austin one at Druids was a bit clumsy

Yep, that was the clumsiest brain fade moment of the lot.

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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:52 pm

Quote :
Tyre stops were banned in 2005, and it didn’t enhance the spectacle to a great degree.

That keeps coming up as a reason not too but they still pitted for fuel thus making it an invalid example. You need to stop all but emergency pitstops it will work.

Modern pitstops are far to fast there is no way there should be nearly 30 people waiting for a car. Making it 2 people abc I'll let you change tyres.
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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:59 am

2013 has been great so far, so if it ain’t broke (yet) – don’t fix it. I think banning tyre stops would result in Pirelli being ultra conservative, creating safe compounds that would endure the whole distance but wouldn’t degrade or grain enough to create excitement. Especially at the circuits that put the most loading in the tyres, Pirelli would produce a very durable but dull compound for safety.

At the moment, Pirelli have a lot of flexibility because they know that teams will pit, so they can produce compounds that mix things up.

I like the rapid pitstops, they're pretty unique and watching them is fascinating in the sense of everyone interacting with perfection in barley two seconds. Other motorsports have slower pitstops, and that is interesting to watch too. It isn't something that I particularly care about, nor do I care about F1 having tyre stops. These are really rather trivial matters, imo.


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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:04 am

It is broke

And actually if you have to race on the track durability will be less of a problem. But pirelli dyes don't last an hour they have never managed. No one uses pirelli's in gt racing because there three wear out in less than a stint no matter what you do to them.
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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:23 am

Jeremy Aardvark wrote:
It is broke


Not according to the TV ratings – both Australia and Malaysia increased viewership compared to 2012. Malaysia was the most-ever watched Malaysian GP in the UK.

In previous years, there have been tyres that have almost lasted the whole race distance. Bridgestone’s control compounds could have lasted race distances in 2010, if it wasn’t for the mandatory tyre stop rule. The 'racing' (or rather lack of) was fairly boring in those races.

The 2011 Nurburgring race saw Massa and Vettel almost drive the entire distance, until they pitted on the final lap. Neither driver passed each other because the tyres were too good. If they had run the final lap, Vettel wouldn’t have suddenly passed Massa. In effect, there have been races situations which suit your philosophy – but the racing was pretty subdued.

I appreciate what you want, but I think you’re in a very small minority. 2013 has been fabulous so far, with plenty of wheel-to-wheel racing that people have craved for a long time - how that happens isn’t of concern to me.



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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:20 am

Quote :

In previous years, there have been tyres that have almost lasted the whole race distance. Bridgestone’s control compounds could have lasted race distances in 2010, if it wasn’t for the mandatory tyre stop rule. The 'racing' (or rather lack of) was fairly boring in those races.

The 2011 Nurburgring race saw Massa and Vettel almost drive the entire distance, until they pitted on the final lap. Neither driver passed each other because the tyres were too good. If they had run the final lap, Vettel wouldn’t have suddenly passed Massa. In effect, there have been races situations which suit your philosophy – but the racing was pretty subdued

Which is why the dyes need to degrade.

Some of the gp2 races in the has couple of years have been the perfect example of what I want to see f1 do. Some drivers saved there tyres others coundn't and they had to get to the end of the race the best they could. Often Grosjean would cruise to the front he was the best driver. But crucially no one could get another set of tyres races had good finishes with f1's higher driving standard epic races are almost a certainty. Other with be dull but qualifying Tut's are crucial otherwise the fastest car always starts first.
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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:59 am

Round 2 is at Donington this weekend, going for both days, i know Cal is going Sunday, you get tickets sorted Paddy? I'm guessing will be on the outside of the Old Hairpin for Sunday, bit of a long walk from the paddock area, but you can see from the top of the Craners to Starkey's Bridge and don't have to worry about the fences so much.
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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:30 am

Looking forward to Donington, it will be a busy motor racing day - but BTCC will be one of the highlights.

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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:17 am

How surprising was it to see Plato v the Dynamics cars without a hint of contact, there were plenty of opportunities to make contact in the Crainer Curves, but both drivers gave a lot of respect. Cool

It was so great to see the BMW 125i M Sport winning its first race. bounce

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PostSubject: Re: BTCC 2013   Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:32 am

Was a great weekend, Saturday was pretty warm and caught the sun a bit! Sunday was cooler and cloudy. Good to catch up with Paddy and briefly Cal (who had hospitality with Speedworks). Was at the outside of Old Hairpin all day, but managed to miss Newsham's spin in R3 as was behind the lens following someone else. Havent seen the races on tv yet. R1 was pretty tame, 2 was a bit better but R3 was much more entertaining. Seems like the new clerk of the course wants to stamp his authority on things, at least until Alan Gow tells him to lightnen up a bit cos the drivers are all avoiding each other pretty much.
Adam Morgan is doing a great job this year, family run team and second year seems to have given him a boost. Sam Tordoof has settled in well and lets hope he gets to hassle Plato on a regular basis. Jeff Smith has also done a good job so far, better than last year.
Nice to see Turks take his first win on his BTCC return and the first brand other than an MG or Honda to win this year.
Next up is Thruxton on May 4/5th


Last edited by boyhitscarpimp on Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:33 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : forgot to finish sentence)
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