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PostSubject: Autosport awards – BS?   Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:43 am

Okay, so last night was the Autosport awards. Vettel and Alonso were competing for the “International Racing Driver” award.

Vettel won this award. Vettel is a superb driver, but does that mean that Vettel drove better than Alonso this year?

I’m not so sure. Alonso didn’t make a single mistake all season, and won Grand’s Prix when the car was nowhere near the fastest. Malaysia, Silverstone and Hockenheim are great examples of Nando out-performing the car. With Vettel, he has very driven well this season, but I think its more car related. Seemingly after Monza, Newey found the magic of 2011 and the Ferrari never really improved, but Alonso dragged amazing results out of that mediocre Ferrari.

If you’re looking for a driver that made the difference, Alonso surely wins? Alonso has proven what an adaptable driver he is – that in my opinion is the driver making the difference.

Next up – “British driver of the year”. Jenson Button wins – eh? Button did win three Grand’s Prix, but he was practically nowhere in between those victories. When Hamilton won in Montreal, Button finished 16th and got lapped in the same car.

Hamilton lost victories in Spain, Singapore, Abu Dhabi and Brazil due to cock-ups from other factors. Surely the dominance at these events should be considered. Even with all those lost points, Hamilton out-scored Button.

Or, Dario Franchitti should have won the award. Winning the Indianapolis 500 in that way is alone worthy.

Putting my cynical mode on, did Button win because Hamilton is leaving McLaren? After all, it is the “McLaren” Autosport awards…







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PostSubject: Re: Autosport awards – BS?   Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:22 am

First of all

Ahem


The reason Dario didn't win is because he's not in f1. Autosport doesn't really know what indycar is. Hammy is better than Butty and there's know way Butty should have won an award for this year. Nonsense.

As for vettel and alonso. Alonso won races with the fourth or fifth best car at times. Vettel only won because of Adrian newey (sp?) so perhaps he should have won the award. But again it's f1 only. Seb Loeb won a ninth straight WRC title and won the rally cross at the x games. But like I said, it's f1 only.
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PostSubject: Re: Autosport awards – BS?   Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:00 am

This is the problem with having the tyre lottery have so much say in the championship. I would say Mclaren had the quickest car in race trim but was hard to keep the tyres in the window. The Redbull had a fairly easy car to work the tyres but improved the car a lot in the second half of the season. Ferrari had the worst car for the tyres but often found its sweet spot during the race and Alonso drove to its strength, much like Kimi at Renault.

I couldn't pick a best performer from the season personally, I felt the tyre situatioin masked the efforts of the drivers too much. Alonso is a very good driver and so is Vettel, theres isn't much in it. I like Vettels ability to do what is needed at the end of a season, he shows great focus which adds great value to his titles in my opinion. Alonso has an almost infallible way of driving, he only needs a little and he can do a lot with it and he also is strong mentally and has good intelligence in his approach, although one word I would not use to describe him is adaptable.

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PostSubject: Re: Autosport awards – BS?   Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:12 am

As cerca said, Alonso won Grand’s Prix where he theoretically nowhere near had the fastest car. That in my opinion is the driver making the difference, and considering this is a Drivers award – that should surely be considered. Numerous times this year, the Ferrari was a dog in practice with terrible handling, yet come Sunday – Alonso would adapt his driving style and make the right risks.

As the Red Bull improved after Monza, Vettel started to close Alonso down. Essentially, I don’t know when Vettel out-drove the abilities of his car. Vettel drove a great season, albeit with a few silly errors with back markers, but Alonso took that Ferrari where it shouldn’t have been. Alonso also was error-free during the entire 20 races – that’s again the driver making the difference.

Duckman wrote:
Alonso has an almost infallible way of driving, he only needs a little and he can do a lot with it and he also is strong mentally and has good intelligence in his approach, although one word I would not use to describe him is adaptable.


I think Alonso is the most adaptable driver on the grid, with Hamilton second. Alonso’s strength is not when he has the fastest car; it’s what he does when the car is mediocre. From a brocking bronco in practice, Alonso often adapted his style and actually made the car quite competitive during the Grand’s Prix.

Whereas Red Bull and McLaren steadily made their cars better, Ferrari didn't really make any on-track improvement once the summer was. Alonso is superb,

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PostSubject: L   Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:06 am

Quote :
I think Alonso is the most adaptable driver on the grid, with Hamilton second

With vettel third at best. Alonso is the best driver in f1 with hammy second. It's odd then that vettel won the award.
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PostSubject: Re: Autosport awards – BS?   Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:11 am

Jeremy Aardvark wrote:
Quote :
I think Alonso is the most adaptable driver on the grid, with Hamilton second

With vettel third at best. Alonso is the best driver in f1 with hammy second. It's odd then that vettel won the award.

I cannot disagree. Perhaps the BRDC have more common sense, Hamilton won an award and Button didn't for 2012 - exactly how it should be. I'd like Autosport to explain why Button was selected as the best British driver, when he's been very inconsistent in his performances.

Dario Franchitti, Hamilton, Rob Huff are more deserving winners. We had a British winner of the Indianapolis 500 - that's huge.

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PostSubject: Re: Autosport awards – BS?   Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:20 am

And yet no recognition is given whatsoever in the UK public eye. Nobody even knew that Brits took part in the IndyCar series, or even what IndyCar was, until Wheldon's death last year, and even then it was public knowledge for about 6 seconds.
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PostSubject: Re: Autosport awards – BS?   Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:33 am

It's especially bad with Autosport, because they're supposed to know about motorsport that isn't F1.

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PostSubject: Re: Autosport awards – BS?   Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:10 pm

Mobil 1 wrote:
and won Grand’s Prix when the car was nowhere near the fastest

You're developing a grocer's apostrophe, Sir :-)

Seriously, though, I agree with your premise that the driver who wins the Championship shouldn't automatically win the accolade of "Best Driver".

Quote :
. Malaysia, Silverstone and Hockenheim are great examples of Nando out-performing the car. With Vettel, he has very driven well this season, but I think its more car related. Seemingly after Monza, Newey found the magic of 2011 and the Ferrari never really improved, but Alonso dragged amazing results out of that mediocre Ferrari.

Agreed.

Quote :
If you’re looking for a driver that made the difference, Alonso surely wins? Alonso has proven what an adaptable driver he is – that in my opinion is the driver making the difference.

I think it's very close and, if we were to actually extend it a little, I think Kimi also drove an impeccable season (no DNFs at all, even if he *did* go for a scenic detour part way through the last race)... having been in rallying etc. he very quickly "found his feet" and I'm quite excited about his prospects for next season.

Quote :
Next up – “British driver of the year”. Jenson Button wins – eh? Button did win three Grand’s Prix, but he was practically nowhere in between those victories. When Hamilton won in Montreal, Button finished 16th and got lapped in the same car.

Very harsh... Button had three wins and three second places... he also finished in the points in 14 of the 20 races and in the top six in 11 of them. Monaco was a pigs ear of a race... and Montreal never really got going at all, did it? Any idea *why* Button elected not to run in Q3?

Quote :
Hamilton lost victories in Spain, Singapore, Abu Dhabi and Brazil due to cock-ups from other factors. Surely the dominance at these events should be considered. Even with all those lost points, Hamilton out-scored Button.

True, but was he a better driver?

Quote :
Or, Dario Franchitti should have won the award. Winning the Indianapolis 500 in that way is alone worthy.

Personally I don't think there are *any* really exciting British drivers around at the moment. Somebody who you could honestly say "put them in a rubbish car and they'll still be up there fighting"...

Quote :
Putting my cynical mode on, did Button win because Hamilton is leaving McLaren? After all, it is the “McLaren” Autosport awards…

Now there's a conspiracy theory... reminds me of this...



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PostSubject: Re: Autosport awards – BS?   Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:49 am

Quote :
I think Kimi also drove an impeccable season (no DNFs at all, even if he *did* go for a scenic detour part way through the last race)... having been in rallying etc. he very quickly "found his feet" and I'm quite excited about his prospects for next season.

Indeed, Raikkonen had a superb season on his return to Formula 1. Kimi was immediately quick from Melbourne, and although often challenged from Grosjean for raw pace, Kimi’s race craft and judgment was clear to see.

Quote :
Very harsh... Button had three wins and three second places... he also finished in the points in 14 of the 20 races and in the top six in 11 of them. Monaco was a pigs ear of a race... and Montreal never really got going at all, did it? Any idea *why* Button elected not to run in Q3?

But where was Button in between those three victories? I think Button would admit himself that he massively struggled with qualifying for most of the season, which is clearly displayed by where Hamilton was qualifying the car.

Quote :
True, but was he a better driver?

Absolutely, that there can be no doubt. Hamilton rivals Alonso as a top performer this year. Hamilton was simply exceptional in qualifying, and unlocked the speed which the MP4-27 had. If one looks at Hamilton’s race struggles, they are all team-related, whether pit stop or car issues.

Hamilton lost out on valuable victories, which were painful in such a closely fought championship. Whereas Hamilton always delivered what the car had available, Button struggled far too often and couldn’t adapt to the car like Hamilton could. Button’s victories were good, but he was far too inconsistent and his unbeatable speed is far too occasional.

In terms of mistakes, Hamilton made no driving errors whatsoever. Button did clumsily slide into Karthikeyan in Malaysia, and overall, it’s not even a serious point whether Hamilton was better.

Quote :
Personally I don't think there are *any* really exciting British drivers around at the moment. Somebody who you could honestly say "put them in a rubbish car and they'll still be up there fighting"...

I like what James Calado has to offer. He drove a very mature first year in GP2, but was blighted by appalling luck and robbed of wins in Valencia down to strategy. Calado races very cleanly and intelligently, he stood out in GP2 this year.

It’s ironic that Esteban Gutierrez has got the Sauber drive, and Max Chilton has got the Maurssia seat, because Calado was better than both of them.

My conspiracy is definitely true!




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PostSubject: Re: Autosport awards – BS?   Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:06 am

Chilton and Gutierrez have money calardo doesn't




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PostSubject: Re: Autosport awards – BS?   Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:58 am

Indeed, Gutierrez has Telmex and Chilton has Aon money. Calado had excellent race craft and was excellent at defending; he would place the car perfectly without getting wrecked. He upset the apple cart, because Gutierrez was supposed to be the hot shot at ART.

I’d love to see Calado in F1, he would be superb at wheel-to-wheel racing…unlike a certain Enstone driver.


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PostSubject: Re: Autosport awards – BS?   Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:36 am

I reckon grosjean is a good potential great driver but renault don't want him to succeed at the top level so are sabotaging him. I think there doing it with something in his engine and sends a odd signal through his ear peice (I had a dog whistle on my odd phone that drive people mad). I think renault are doing something like that to grosjean at the start of races.
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PostSubject: Re: Autosport awards – BS?   Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:54 am

Yikes, that’s some conspiracy. lol!

Renault ought to like Grosjean, as a fast Frenchman in F1 once again. He was thrown in at the deep end when he drove in 2009; stopping GP2 to drive such a terrible F1 car. Grosjean has shown stunning speed, it’s no mean feat matching and even out-pacing someone like Raikkonen.

Grosjean crashed in Interlagos, which anybody could have done in such treacherous conditions, but someone like Hulkenberg with similar experience didn’t crash. I worry that if Grosjean returns to Enstone in 2013; he’ll start being apprehensive in fear of making contact in wheel-to-wheel combat.

Something else also worried me. After Japan, he said the team would go through his struggles. How can the team help? This isn’t a car or technical issue, the start is a tense time for a driver, but it surely must be entirely instinctive – only Grosjean can help himself.

I suspect Grosjean will stay, because he’s Eric Boullier favoured son with the Gravity Management support. With Kimi, they have a proven performer, and Grosjean is an Enstone product that can develop.

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PostSubject: Re: Autosport awards – BS?   Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:57 am

Total's money is a lot to do with Grosjean as well, although it's not likely to be dependent on Grosjean being there. I think Romain is worth the seat next year as he clearly has pace, but if he can't sort out all the silly errors at the start then can see him being replaced mid season.
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PostSubject: Re: Autosport awards – BS?   Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:18 am

I recall Nelson Piquet Jr had a clause in his 2009 contract to score a certain number of points. Well, we know how that ended....

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