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PostSubject: DTM 2013, all things related    Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:32 am

Think a new thread might be needed now:

05/05 Hockenheim
19/05 Brands Hatch Indy
02/06 Red Bull Ring
16/06 Lausitzring
07/07 Norisring
21/07 Zandvoort
04/08 Moscow
18/08 Nürburgring
15/09 Oschersleben
29/09 TBA
20/10 Hockenheim

It’s a bit of an underwhelming calendar. Lausitzring, Nurburgring, Zanvoort and Oschersleben just don’t work in the dry; plain and simple. I always recall the 2005 Lausitzring around, when Paffett was so much faster than Ekstrom, he did everything but drive through Ekstrom’s car to pass.

From watching WSR at the Moscow track, it’s very twisty with few straights. I cannot foresee the track being good for DTM cars, which need heavy braking zones for any chance of passing.

Brands Indy again, oh dear, there isn’t a more unsuitable circuit for these wide cars with short braking zones. DTM needs to be at Silverstone for any chance of a good race, Brands GP wouldn’t work either, the GP corners are too fast for passing with the excess downforce.

Valencia for Barcelona? No difference, the racing was rubbish at Barcelona as well, especially on the short circuit, not utilising the long pit straight.



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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:30 am

calender is still the same. lets hope it improves in 2014 with Super GT tie up

I do hope marco wittmann gets one of the 2 new BMW seats, canny person!
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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:18 am

They're also freezing the 2013-spec cars at the current level. Possible first step of the SuperGT merger?
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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:26 am

I actually don’t mind the DTM calendar in isolation. It’s the cars that kill the racing, or rather lack of.

The freezing of cars can be a good idea…nothing wrong with the engines or construction of the cars – just shed the carbon brakes and excess downforce.

Super GT was super at Sepang, DTM should go there in 2014. If DTM cannot be exciting around that track, with the length of the straightaways, there's no hope.

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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:08 am

So, Jamie Green is going to Audi since being with Mercedes-Benz during the entirety of his DTM stint.

I'm not sure about Green. Does anybody remember what a qualifying master he was, but he would fluff the races? Even Norbert got bored of the poor pole-to-win conversion. He'll win the odd race, but I'm not sure that's enough to sustain a title challenge.

So many drivers blow hot and cold in DTM. Although the series is still too boring, there doesn't seem to be dominant drivers. Timo Scheider won the title in 2009...and has been nowhere since.

Ekstrom, two-time champion, he also looks a bit lost. Perhaps he liked NASCAR a bit too much...

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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:54 am

That's leaving Mercedes a bit worse for wear isn't it?

In reality, unless one of the other drivers they have left has a 'eureka' moment, Paffett's gonna be the marque's only real hope of winning the 2013 title.
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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:35 am

It seems difficult to be consistent in DTM, more so than in other series. Yes, Paffett is really the only driver who may sustain a title challenge for Mercedes. Ekstrom and Scheider have gone a bit cold recently, though. On paper they have better drivers, but it's not really showing up in the results.

Spengler was consistently fast in 2012, and bar some wrecks, he may have been leading into Hockenheim last year. I am interested to see what Priaulx can do this season. He's an excellent driver with all those WTCC titles and an ETCC title, but I sense he struggled with the intricacies of a DTM car in 2012. The carbon shell, carbon brakes and huge downforce. These cars will obviously be a lot different to the production based 3-Series' he used to drive.

I really hope the UK gets better coverage in 2013. ESPN basically equates to no coverage, it's not really a motorsport channel, and DTM always seemed like a nuisance to them. ITV 4 - coverage after one week - useless.

Motors TV seems filled up now - I doubt they would show it.

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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:44 am

i think green is good support driver for any team. you know he is going to be up there.

problem with DTM i was watching today was one simple error at the start or getting spun your race is over. you can't over take to get pass or anything. which is a bit annoying.

i think Priaulx will improve next year getting the hang of it now. proved in the lass few race or 2 he got a grips with it like joey hand.

i don't see why ITV 4 don't it live i mean they only show repeats of old shows!

i am hoping to go to brands i am trying to.
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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:45 am

Indeed, but more acutely, it’s almost impossible to overtake in general. The cars simply have too much downforce and braking performance. DTM has suffered these problems for a while, but nothing has been done.

The over-reliance on aero parts also means that even the slightest contact results in retirement. These are not open wheel cars. Contact, rubbing and banging is the whole point of touring cars.

DTM’s philosophy is to have the fastest, most technical touring cars in the world. That’s wrong. Nobody wants technical touring cars. If people want technical, they’ll watch F1 or a prototype series.

Quote :
i don't see why ITV 4 don't it live i mean they only show repeats of old shows


That’s simple – BTCC and support races are shown live by ITV4. Whatever the broadcaster, DTM UK coverage is in crisis. ESPN is not a typical motorsport channel, so the series is virtually non-existent.

Imo, DTM made a big mistake when they moved from Motors TV. It became established and there was a good community.

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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:44 pm

I am hoping it will pay off like it did for Bruno he left Mercedes and last year with his first stint in BMW he won the title Jamie is looking to do the same thing see if it happens the same. Very weird to see him in a different suit still trying to get used to it still i wish him well and look forward to may when i can go back to brands to see him again. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:53 am

Green might be rejuvenated by driving for a new marque and team. Green was liked by Norbert Haug a lot, now that Haug is gone and combined with not winning a title yet, leaving to another marque might give him what he needs to win a championship.

That said, Green will hope the Audi A5 didn't perform like it did in 2013...

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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:55 am

Mobil 1 wrote:
Green might be rejuvenated by driving for a new marque and team. Green was liked by Norbert Haug a lot, now that Haug is gone and combined with not winning a title yet, leaving to another marque might give him what he needs to win a championship.

That said, Green will hope the Audi A5 didn't perform like it did in 2013...

Sav, are you psychic? Shocked Razz


Last edited by CJ on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:08 am

Sorry, 2012. Embarassed


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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:35 am

DTM is to get DRS and ‘option’, softer tyres: http://www.touringcartimes.com/2013/04/09/drs-and-option-tyres-confirmed-for-2013-dtm/

However, DRS will work a bit different than in F1:

Quote :
The system is only active when a driver is within two seconds from another driver in front of him on the main straight, once per lap

2 seconds? At least Formula 1 has the sense to limit DRS activation to 1 second.

Bizarrely, DRS will be…

Quote :
De-activated three laps from the finish.

Eh, why? Surely the organisers want overtaking to increase, what is so dangerous about DRS being activated 3 laps from the finish?

This sounds like a load of crap, personally. Touring cars should be about paint swapping, bumper banging, fender rubbing, getting revenge etc.

All DRS does is hide DTM’s fundamental problem – too much downforce and too efficient brakes. The race organisers get in a tizzy over any contact, what’s the point in that? The bumpers need to be made out of granite so drivers can do the ‘bump and run’ – that’s real excitement.

Touring cars don’t need flappy wings – they need flappy bumpers!

Rant over.


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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:45 am

I don't think DTM organisers quite get it. they have a decent series. three top manufacturers, Top drivers.

i do like DTM however DTM seems to less and less like a touring car series, they had good racing last year but think they could kind move away from touring car series but its not paint swapping and jason plato style smashing you off the track racing.

option tyres could work, DRS is interesting but i think we have to see how it works in a race. could be good. 3laps from the end it is to deactived bit naff.....
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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:20 am

Mobil 1 wrote:
DTM is to get DRS and ‘option’, softer tyres: http://www.touringcartimes.com/2013/04/09/drs-and-option-tyres-confirmed-for-2013-dtm/

However, DRS will work a bit different than in F1:

Quote :
The system is only active when a driver is within two seconds from another driver in front of him on the main straight, once per lap

2 seconds? At least Formula 1 has the sense to limit DRS activation to 1 second.

Bizarrely, DRS will be…

Quote :
De-activated three laps from the finish.

Eh, why? Surely the organisers want overtaking to increase, what is so dangerous about DRS being activated 3 laps from the finish?

This sounds like a load of crap, personally. Touring cars should be about paint swapping, bumper banging, fender rubbing, getting revenge etc.

All DRS does is hide DTM’s fundamental problem – too much downforce and too efficient brakes. The race organisers get in a tizzy over any contact, what’s the point in that? The bumpers need to be made out of granite so drivers can do the ‘bump and run’ – that’s real excitement.

Touring cars don’t need flappy wings – they need flappy bumpers!

Rant over.


Here here.
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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:27 am

Quote :
they have a decent series. three top manufacturers, Top drivers.

I agree. This is the paradox, DTM has some excellent elements to it. The quality and investment of the three marques, the fabulous noise of the cars, healthy attendance and the high-caliber drivers are all impressive.

Quote :
they had good racing last year

Some races were mildly interesting. A1 Ring was fairly good, the Norisring was excellent - but that's only because it was wet. The last truly decent race dry was Norisring 2011, but that was a fluke day for DTM.

Quote :
i do like DTM however DTM seems to less and less like a touring car series,

Indeed. DTM has carbon brakes which shortens braking distances, which makes overtaking in the dry extremely difficult. The cars have way too much downforce, and the cars are too fragile.

The key test of any good touring car is whether the bodywork can get bent, and the driver can carry on. DTM cars are so fragile, made worse by the over-dependence on aero winglets.

I was watching the V8 Supercars last weekend, the braking distances for those cars are much longer, allowing more overtaking. V8 Supercars are heavier and have steel brakes – DTM should take note.

V8 Supercars hasn’t resorted to DRS or soft tyres to improve the racing. DTM totally has the wrong priorities.

Quote :
but its not paint swapping and jason plato style smashing you off the track racing.

That is a valid point. Whilst I’d love DTM to be a V8, German BTCC – that level of contact isn’t needed for excitement. However, the absolute best touring car racing happens where contact is allowed – that’s touring car racing in a nutshell.

If drivers cannot trade paint to advance position – it isn’t a touring car series.

Quote :
option tyres could work, DRS is interesting

I have no doubt that a softer compound and DRS will increase overtaking, but they are implementing these tricks to disguise more fundamental problems.

Touring car racing should be the fiercest, most aggressive type of motorsport. That’s what makes BTCC and V8 Supercars so great.

To me, you don’t judge touring car racing on the engines, the prettiness of the chassis, downforce, carbon brakes – you solely judge touring car racing on the intensity of the racing. And if you ain’t got that racing – it’s hopeless.



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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:29 am

Now this is called excitement. Note that some cars have bumpers dislodged, fenders bent – but the furious-nature of this racing is priceless.

Probably the best touring car race of all time – payback, heated tempers – this is what touring car racing should be:



Or this:




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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:58 am

Those were the days. Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:34 pm

Watching the V8 Supercars from Pukekohe in New Zealand last weekend reminded me what DTM should be like.

The track was in theory hard to pass on, but the longer braking zones, lack of aero-dependency and even more power resulted in great racing. A little paint-swapping was involved, not much - but it kept things entertaining.


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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:38 am

Testing has been interesting. highly doubt anyone really showing their hand. marco wittmann has been performing well.
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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Wed May 01, 2013 9:10 am

If you want to watch DTM on the TV.....you still have to subscribe to ESPN. I wonder if the DTM organisers actually look at their UK viewing figures...do they have a plan in place when ESPN UK disappears?

I see that ESPN cannot even be bothered to show Hockenheim live - random stream for me....

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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Wed May 01, 2013 9:46 am

To the best of my information a lot of the contracts currently don't know weather there continuing or not.
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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Wed May 01, 2013 6:00 pm

Not sure about DTM, but ESPN has only listed IndyCar races until July...

I don't envisage another broadcaster yearning to broadcast DTM, this is the consequence of being broadcasted on a channel that doesn't care about motorsport (well, the UK subsidiary, anyway).


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PostSubject: Re: DTM 2013, all things related    Wed May 01, 2013 8:10 pm

It will probably be back where it should be on Motors.
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