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PostSubject: European Le Mans Series Thread   Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:17 pm

live coverage http://www.europeanlemansseries.com/en/s54_courses/s54p09_videos.php also on motors

not the biggest field but i think its a good series for what it is.
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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:48 pm

OMG, I was just watching this. This series wins the award for being the snooziest series ever. Watching a crappy field of cars with traction control and engine braking around Paul Ricard - no thanks. There were no battles to speak off.

Its like a glorified practice session; cars just go around with little real racing. ALMS and Grand-Am pisses all over this series. Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep

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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:52 pm

what are you talking about. did you see the start? CLEARLY NOT! Rolling Eyes

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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:06 pm

good to see Jonny cocker back in top drive. He has been out far to long.

love the status lola on board. great sound

good to hear marino in the booth he was awesome at sebring.

This running is going to help a lot teams with brand new cars.
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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:01 am

MotorracingP wrote:
what are you talking about. did you see the start? CLEARLY NOT! Rolling Eyes


And your point is? For a six hour race, there needs to be more excitement then throughout the whole race then just the start. Yesterdayís Grand-Am race saw real racing, with close battles.

I'm watching this ELMS race right now, I cannot see a battle in sight. The commentators even sound bored.

I still detest that these cars have traction control too, if anybody is struggling with their car Ė traction control will mask the problem. When one compares ALMS and Grand-Am to ELMS, there is no excuse whatsoever for such staid racing.





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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:25 am

In a long race there is not going to be battles for the whole race which obviously.........pit stops and traffic are going to play into with the P2 having have an "am" drivers

the fact that this racing is different compare to ALMS and Grand-am. grand-am/ALMS is sprint racing. this track is wide open hardly any of your favourite safety car crap. also the ELMS is changed now but it a good race. lots of stuff can still happen still 1hour 36minutes to go. should be good racing in the other race tracks

Well if you hate that much contact the ACO and tell them i am sure they will listen to you with there ears wide open.....
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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:39 am

sam handcock missed up there.

gulf racing aston martin is not right.

ALex Brundle took the front left off on the curbs

Alex sims seem to peddling well.
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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:43 am

Greaves Motorsport. 2minutes stop and go.

Status heading for the podium?
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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:50 am

Quote :
In a long race there is not going to be battles for the whole race which obviously

Well there should be, and the real issue is the lack of racing for the vast majority of the distance. Itís always been like that with ELMS. Shorten the races, whatever Ė there should be more racing.

Quote :
Well if you hate

I donít recall saying I hate anything, Iím just flabbergasted at how dull ELMS races still are. One might think that the organisers would learn, but apparently not.

Quote :
the fact that this racing is different compare to ALMS and Grand-am.

That doesnít excuse ELMSís dullness in the slightest.

Quote :
grand-am/ALMS is sprint racing

Not strictly true. When ALMS and Grand-Am have longer distance races, they usually have plenty of excitement. Sebring, Road Atlanta and Grand-Amís enduro around Watkins Glen have regular close, hard racing.

The excuse of ďoh, but itís a long race so it wonít be action packedĒ is bullshit. Daytona 24 Hours is close and exciting even near the end. I donít care how exciting racing is created. Close field, cautions, tyreís falling off? I honestly couldnít care how exciting racing is fostered, but exciting racing has to exist.

There is a wider point that motor racing has to entertain in order to engage an audience, and ELMS has never done that for me.

Quote :
this track is wide open hardly any of your favourite safety car crap

Paul Ricard is hardly an oil painting, but ELMSís problem is far greater than the track. These races are snoozy around any track. Itís been like that virtually since 2004.

Quote :
your favourite safety car crap

Iím sorry to disappoint you, but Iím not in race control dictating how races play out. However, I do hold the opinion that cautionís bunch the field back up Ė then we have a proper race again.

Quote :
much contact the ACO and tell them i am sure they will listen to you with there ears wide open

Yeah, Iím sure they would.

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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:16 am

Mobil 1 wrote:
Quote :
In a long race there is not going to be battles for the whole race which obviously

Well there should be, and the real issue is the lack of racing for the vast majority of the distance. Itís always been like that with ELMS. Shorten the races, whatever Ė there should be more racing.

Its strategy racing though.

Quote :
Well if you hate

I donít recall saying I hate anything, Iím just flabbergasted at how dull ELMS races still are. One might think that the organisers would learn, but apparently not.

no you didn't but your basicly saying who without actually saying it "i hate"

Quote :
the fact that this racing is different compare to ALMS and Grand-am.

That doesnít excuse ELMSís dullness in the slightest.

its not dull its good, i think you like to complain about it!

Quote :
grand-am/ALMS is sprint racing

Not strictly true. When ALMS and Grand-Am have longer distance races, they usually have plenty of excitement. Sebring, Road Atlanta and Grand-Amís enduro around Watkins Glen have regular close, hard racing.

The excuse of ďoh, but itís a long race so it wonít be action packedĒ is bullshit. Daytona 24 Hours is close and exciting even near the end. I donít care how exciting racing is created. Close field, cautions, tyreís falling off? I honestly couldnít care how exciting racing is fostered, but exciting racing has to exist.

yes but if think of how ELMS and Le mans is 10 safety cars and it mess up the Field

Quote :
There is a wider point that motor racing has to entertain in order to engage an audience, and ELMS has never done that for me.


thats your problem. some people enjoy it. i can easy listen to radio le mans with easy and enjoy. Dubai 24hr i am listening again and its enjoyable they explain stuff have imformative comments and so times funny stuff, stuff with trustwell wife text message was brilliant lol

Quote :
this track is wide open hardly any of your favourite safety car crap

Paul Ricard is hardly an oil painting, but ELMSís problem is far greater than the track. These races are snoozy around any track. Itís been like that virtually since 2004.

so when the F1 race goes.....will not be good. zolder and Donnington should good racing. zolder is tight track.

Quote :
your favourite safety car crap

Iím sorry to disappoint you, but Iím not in race control dictating how races play out. However, I do hold the opinion that cautionís bunch the field back up Ė then we have a proper race again.

its doesn't bother me. you can't racing like that all the time. yes it good but what can you do!

Quote :
much contact the ACO and tell them i am sure they will listen to you with there ears wide open

Yeah, Iím sure they would.

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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:55 am

GT is battling is heating up with 5minutes to go.
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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:05 am

what GT battle!.

well done to TDS racing. sebastien loeb racing 2nd. status GP 3rd! nice one!

JMW wins well done jonny cocker!!! way to get back on!



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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:58 am

Mobil 1 wrote:
OMG, I was just watching this. This series wins the award for being the snooziest series ever. Watching a crappy field of cars with traction control and engine braking around Paul Ricard - no thanks. There were no battles to speak off.

Its like a glorified practice session; cars just go around with little real racing. ALMS and Grand-Am pisses all over this series. Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep

why are you bitching about engine breaking. Traction control is rubbish but engine breaking is can't be avoided, every engine except a few turbo's does it. It even sounds good on the right car.
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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:27 am

Quote :
Its strategy racing though.

But thatís not racing; racing is cars battling for position. Ever since Iíve watched motor racing as a kid, a motor race is either exciting or it isnít Ė simple. One can invent quite a lot of bullshit to disguise something that is fundamentally boring, but actual on-track battling is the only racing that exists. Everything else is a different matter. Strategy should be part of a motor race, but it shouldnít absolutely dominate a race. Sadly, the latter is the case with ELMS.

Quote :
no you didn't but your basicly saying who without actually saying it "i hate"

Ohh, conspiracy theories creeping in thereÖ

Quote :
its not dull its good

So good that since ELMSís arrival in 2004, the series hasnít grown at all. Not even Motors TV, an amateur broadcaster could be bothered to show all of it live. In fact if anything, ELMS is becoming weaker (it was weak anyway, so thatís a real achievement). Oh yes, its really good.

Quote :
i think you like to complain about it!

No shit Sherlock

Quote :
so when the F1 race goes.....will not be good.

Probably not, it depends what configuration they need. Paul Ricard is called a test track for a reason. Saying that, the circuits that ELMS races on are not the central problem Ė itís the series itself.

Quote :
why are you bitching about engine breaking. Traction control is rubbish but engine breaking is can't be avoided, every engine except a few turbo's does it.

Of course it can be avoided. With engine braking, there are two brakes. The external mechanism is obviously the brakes themselves, but the engine provides braking assistance by restricting airflow to the inlet manifold when a driver lifts off the throttle and hits the brake pedal. This is a safety feature on road cars, which has found its way onto Le Mans cars.

It rightly got banned in F1, but with the sheer braking capabilities of a race car, engine braking is not needed. Disabling engine braking puts more emphasis on the driver, and not additional assistance.

You can sugar coat it all you want, but the drivers of this calibre really donít need engine braking. They have the finesse and ability to slow the car down without engine braking. Itís another dreaded driver aid.



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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:53 pm

Mobil 1 wrote:


But thatís not racing; racing is cars battling for position. Ever since Iíve watched motor racing as a kid, a motor race is either exciting or it isnít Ė simple. One can invent quite a lot of bullshit to disguise something that is fundamentally boring, but actual on-track battling is the only racing that exists. Everything else is a different matter. Strategy should be part of a motor race, but it shouldnít absolutely dominate a race. Sadly, the latter is the case with ELMS.

but its been like that for years even with LMP1's and ILMC in there. so its not going to change

Quote :


Ohh, conspiracy theories creeping in thereÖ

no just facts

Quote :


So good that since ELMSís arrival in 2004, the series hasnít grown at all. Not even Motors TV, an amateur broadcaster could be bothered to show all of it live. In fact if anything, ELMS is becoming weaker (it was weak anyway, so thatís a real achievement). Oh yes, its really good.

of course. its going have dip without ILMC riding along there events the numbers are not going to be high. ALMS had a dip in 09 but they have come good. it was stream full 6hours online faultless stream and people enjoy, Check the radio le mans forum.

Quote :


No shit Sherlock

well either watch it and enjoy or not watch it and SHUT UP! Rolling Eyes

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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:08 am

Quote :
no just facts

Awfully amusing, you may need to refer to a dictionary to see the definition of something factual.

Quote :
but its been like that for years even with LMP1's and ILMC in there. so its not going to change

I never suggested otherwise, I know itís been the same staid ďactionĒ since 2004. ALMS use more or less the same cars and itís so much more exciting, this is the bizarre issue. Itís got nothing to do with length of races; ALMSís long races see regular genuine battles for position.
ELMS is a massively underperforming series, it has potential because the tracks and other aspects are decent. However, the series has always suffered from pathetic crowd attendance (unless they give away tickets) and hasnít grown its fan base. But when the on-track product is so boring Ė neither will be achieved.

Quote :
ALMS had a dip in 09 but they have come good.

Even when ALMS lacked prototype entries, the racing in the smaller fields was still entertaining. ALMS has generally never been dull from year-to-year.

Quote :
Check the radio le mans forum

On the subject of RLM, I must say this; Hindy is the most biased commentator Iíve ever heard. He refuses to accept any criticism about ELMS, the job of the commentator is not to try and foster public opinion about their pet favourite series. His lack of some objectivity is alarming. Clearly, nobody is ever free of prejudice Ė but an element of objectivity and less defensiveness wouldnít go a miss.

If he wants to wank about ELMS on Radio Le Mans, he is perfectly entitled to do that. But, his commentary should not be on television.

Quote :
well either watch it and enjoy or not watch it and SHUT UP!

Oh dear, somebody is rather hot and bothered Ė how tragic. Poor diddumís.

Oh look, ELMS has cancelled the Zolder round because of the pathetic number of entries: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98563

The race would have been a complete snoozer anyway. ELMS is [u]so[/i] brilliant Ė lolol.


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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:31 am

Sav your not going to get it. It's ok, I don't get dtm it's never worked for me.

But even I can't see the point of 5 races of 6 hours each. They should be 3 hours except on or two with 10 rounds. At which point you'd have a chance of turning into a European alms.

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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:36 pm

No one forced you to watch ELMS did they? NO!

but you don't have to go on here and moan about and ruin it for other people like you have done in the past. like your doing now!. yes its ok to have an opinion about it! but don't ruin it and go on and on about it!

CT wrote:
Sav your not going to get it. It's ok, I don't get dtm it's never worked for me.

exactly I don't go on BTCC section and moan about how i don't like it.....


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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:53 pm

ELMS is for LMP2 and GTE cars but not everyone can afford to go do WEC so teams like JMW and status GP and sebastien loeb racing want to do racing and prove they should get a le mans entry. what series are they going to do if there is no ELMS?

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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:14 am

Will you lot behave!! Its like being in the school ground again!

You'll just have to agree to disagree on it.

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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:24 am

Quote :
No one forced you to watch ELMS did they? NO!

Hot and bothered again?

Quote :
but you don't have to go on here and moan about and ruin it for other people like you have done in the past. like your doing now!. yes its ok to have an opinion about it!

That smacks of complete hypocrisy; others have continually blasted F1 for being boring, which I have nothing against. If people want to criticise something to whatever degree, then Iím happy to engage in a debate.

However, when I blast LMS Ė itís apparently forbidden. You speak like nobody else has ever gone into a forum on this site and frequently moaned about something, itís a fanatical suggestion.

If I said something along the lines of: "oh, how dare you critique F1, your ruining it for me" Ė that would be utterly ridiculous. I love F1, but somebody is perfectly entitled to critique it all they want. Thatís what makes a discussion board interesting. Iím afraid you spat your dummy out from the first exchange, and have ever since.

Quote :
but don't ruin it and go on and on about it!

Who asked you to respond to me? You ruined it for yourself by getting your knicker's in a twist.

You need to refer back to your own comments, I made one comment and you reacted like a baby. If you hadnít of reacted in such a pathetic manner, I wouldnít have continued. If someone finds an F1 race boring, I donít roll my eyes and say ďhave you watched the race? CLEARLY NOTĒ Ė which insults their intelligence and makes an ill-informed assumption in the process.

Me and cerca snipe at each other all the time with no problems, its light-hearted banter that youíre oblivious to. If I cannot critique ELMS in the future, then Iím fine with that, but the approach is awfully insecure and protective. I thoroughly enjoy your company here, but youíve got too angry in this instance.

Quote :
Sav your not going to get it.

I think we can agree there.

Quote :
It's ok, I don't get dtm it's never worked for me.

DTM hasnít worked for me either lol! , at least in recent years. Very snoozy ďactionĒ with little passing.

Quote :
But even I can't see the point of 5 races of 6 hours each. They should be 3 hours except on or two with 10 rounds. At which point you'd have a chance of turning into a European alms.

Yep, I think it would be good to have variety in distances. Long races can be entertaining; Road Atlanta, Rolex 24 and the six hours of the Glen are consistently entertaining, with wheel-to-wheel racing. However, the shorter ALMS and Grand-Am races are great fun to watch. Thereís a sense of urgency and theyíre less strategy dependent. Strategy can be interesting to watch, but it mustnít totally dominate the show. IMO, strategy should foster wheel-to-wheel battles Ė not kill them. That goes for any racing.

Shorter races suit my lifestyle too, sometimes I havenít got six hours + to watch something, which is why I like the flexibility of shorter races. DTM is usually snoozy, but it only lasts 1 hour so I can watch something else afterwards. Razz

I offer to call a truce on this now.

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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:11 am

I think if you've got quite small grids and at the moment lms do, you also need shorter tracks. Paul ricards great but not for 22 runners or 23 I haven't even watched the race yet.
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PostSubject: Re: European Le Mans Series Thread   Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:57 am

the zolder round has been clancelled due to a lack of entries. It's a shame because I was looking forward too it.

Patrick Peter needs to have a rethink quickly or elms will turn into gt1.
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