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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:30 am

Not in relation to its price, sadly. Considering the amount of R&D and testing that has gone into it, 120K would have been a competitive price. It uses a Volvo engine, looks unfinished and has a horrible interior.

If I ever had the chance to buy a car for 160K or so, I’d want something with the beauty, depth of engineering, R&D, dealer support and quality of a 458 Italia, MP4-12C or an SLS For me, raw speed isn’t the only thing I’d want out of a car like that. But Noble want 200K for a vastly less developed product.

Noble will tell you the M600 is raw and undiluted, which to be fair, other small sportscar makers also say. In plain English, that means they didn’t have enough money to develop their product.

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:45 am

--paddy-- wrote:
Mobil 1 wrote:
What’s happening to the supposed new Esprit? Is Lotus still planning to make bespoke engines for passenger cars? Lotus worries me because they unveiled some pretty ambitious plans about three years ago, detailing how they were pitching products at Porsche/Ferrari customers, building their own engines etc. But, none of this seems even close to coming reality.

Lotus is in danger of being like Noble: premium pricing without premium products.

confused

Noble aren't good?

eh? I'd take one off your hands any day!

me too, me too.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:48 am

I'd just take a 997 Turbo; developed and engineered to another level but half the price.

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:52 am

standard german wanabee
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:52 pm

Mobil 1 wrote:
I'd just take a 997 Turbo; developed and engineered to another level but half the price.

if it's just price thats an issue why not take a nissan gtr, again abouty half the price and yet faster around the nurburgring?

As far as i'm concerned there is something a bit special about Nobles. I'm not sure why there just is.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:23 am

--paddy-- wrote:
standard german wanabee

Little Englander.

I think it’s a question of value for money. The Noble uses many off the shelf pieces and it hasn’t been extensively developed like the Ferrari, McLaren, Porsche’s (Turbo or GT2) or the Mercedes. Despite the Noble’s lack of quality and detail, it costs 40K more than the 458 Italia – it doesn’t make much sense.

I know why the Noble costs so much, it’s because they don’t have the economies of scale that the larger, more established manufactures have. This means they have to pass those higher costs onto customers. However, that doesn’t negate how out of depth the M600 is to the competition. Imo, Noble should have adopted Pagani’s strategy. Pagani’s are staggeringly expensive, but the quality and engineering is exquisite – which justifies the price. They got around high production costs by creating something truly special.

If one really wanted to support British industry, the McLaren does Britain proud – a car of brilliant quality, technology and engineering that can compete with the world’s best.

Pagani is now a world-wide respected brand for quality and exquisite attention to detail; they are the only low-volume maker in recent years to truly match the bigger supercar makers.

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:26 am

I'm British for a start.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:16 am

Mobil 1 wrote:
--paddy-- wrote:
standard german wanabee

Little Englander.

I think it’s a question of value for money. The Noble uses many off the shelf pieces and it hasn’t been extensively developed like the Ferrari, McLaren, Porsche’s (Turbo or GT2) or the Mercedes. Despite the Noble’s lack of quality and detail, it costs 40K more than the 458 Italia – it doesn’t make much sense.

I know why the Noble costs so much, it’s because they don’t have the economies of scale that the larger, more established manufactures have. This means they have to pass those higher costs onto customers. However, that doesn’t negate how out of depth the M600 is to the competition. Imo, Noble should have adopted Pagani’s strategy. Pagani’s are staggeringly expensive, but the quality and engineering is exquisite – which justifies the price. They got around high production costs by creating something truly special.

If one really wanted to support British industry, the McLaren does Britain proud – a car of brilliant quality, technology and engineering that can compete with the world’s best.

Pagani is now a world-wide respected brand for quality and exquisite attention to detail; they are the only low-volume maker in recent years to truly match the bigger supercar makers.

To me the Mclaren has so much going for it on paper and yet once you get under the surfaces it's boring. Ok were taking in what if terms. The Mclaren has no spark that makes me want it. It's like a computer, it's very good but I don't care about it that much. The Noble however does have that spark, yes it doesn't have the engineering or the style and yes it's too expensive but I convert it, I want it NOW.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:28 am

I doubt the McLaren’s V8 at 8,000 rpm is anything other than thrilling. Like almost every production car produced by a well-resourced manufacture, it does have sophisticated electronics. But then if we’re working on that theory, every modern car is boring and computer driven – which is far from the case.


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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:07 am

Mobil 1 wrote:
I doubt the McLaren’s V8 at 8,000 rpm is anything other than thrilling. Like almost every production car produced by a well-resourced manufacture, it does have sophisticated electronics. But then if we’re working on that theory, every modern car is boring and computer driven – which is far from the case.


but the ferrari 458 looks like great fun and every time someone has driven it on tv they say so too. The mclaren is the opposite. You've gone back to the number's in theory a twin turbo changed v8 revving to 8,000 rpm is thrilling but I bet it isn't

http://fwd.channel5.com/fifth-gear/videos/supercars/mclaren-mp4-12c-track-test

in numbers alone yes it's great, but it doesn't seems as much for or as special as the slower ferrari 458.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:17 am

jump to three minutes, the leader of the Clarksonites will tell you why it's boring

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCPZSaHyZGQ
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:42 am

I prefer the 458 Italia to the MP4-12C as well, but if one wanted to show that Britain can make something world class – then the McLaren is the car.

I’ve heard a McLaren being driven off in London, it sounded utterly sensational. Not quite as harder bark as the 458, but it was hardly shabby. Clarkson’s comments need to be taken with a pinch of salt; he comments that the McLaren is built with too much science and not enough passion. Well, Ferrari’s or Lambo’s are not built by funky Italian chiefs or something - their built with similar amazing engineering and science, Ferrari’s for many year have been stuffed full with fancy electronics. Yet they’re not called boring because they’re Italian, and supposedly have “character” (yes, only Italian cars have character according to media outlets).

Most drivers are not like Tiff Needell frankly, the test of a car is not the quality of a long powerslide. To counter their thoughts, Evo, Autocar and Pistonheads have all praised the MP4-12C. The press swings in roundabouts.

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:41 am

I can live with that.

I still like the Noble

and i've crashed cars on games because the TC and SC's on. I was better than the the aid's were and had the same crash. I hate TC and SC.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:52 am

GP2 returns this weekend at the Bahrain International Circuit. Both races can be seen on Sky Sports F1 on Saturday and Sunday respectively. GP2 Asia was storming around Bahrain, I don't expect anything less this weekend.

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:54 am

What sensational racing in that feature race. They were taking to the sand to make passes in turn 4.

Gutierrez v Chilton was superb on the final lap. Chilton started to block the inside of turn 11, Gutierrez went to the outside, and then he jumped up the inside to pass. It was a great tactical move.

The race had everything; wild dive bomb moves, silly driving, danger and a Safety Car period.

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:39 am

This series sucks. I just tryed to watch the race but gave up after the safety car stayed out for ages for no reason at all.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:39 am

That was the best GP2 race I’ve seen in ages. 3 Safety Car periods in 30 laps is just outstanding. You gotta love how drivers dive-bombed each other in that final turn for the restarts.

I don’t entirely blame Palmer for tipping Crestani over. For some reason, Nasr didn’t get to the edge of the Swing Bridge, he stayed in the middle which confused drivers behind, stacking the field up. If you’re off the pace, you better get to one side quickly.

Race control was trying to get the whole field lined up in race order, which I completely understand. The downside is extended SC laps, but I’ll trade that any day compared to a jumbled up field, where viewers/spectators have no clue who is properly racing who.

Compared to the usual snooze-fests of Valencia; I’ll take wild moves, crazy restarts, Safety Cars and crashes.

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:45 am

The Sprint race was epic; those final laps were classic GP2. Calado has effectively been screwed out of two race wins. Being hit by Haryanto just allowed Leimer to close in.

Calado is a very, very impressive driver in my opinion. He has the speed, but his race craft is even more impressive. When defending, he gently moves over to ensure he can turn enough to get a good exit. He doesn’t turn too accurately when defending, which is why Leimer found it impossible to do the switch back. Calado was under intense pressure, but he dictated where he would turn and place the car in the braking zones.

I was deeply impressed.

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:55 am

Brilliant move by cechotto.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:39 am


Calado is very impressive in GP2. Like many, he has raw speed, but he mixes that with very intelligent race craft and he has often paced races like a veteran. Could be worth watching in the future…

Razia and Valsecchi are separated by a mere two points now.

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:35 am

Filippi back again is he? Joy.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:15 am

He’s been around the block, hasn’t he? Filippi is like Pantanto but crap.

Last time I heard about Filippi is how he tried to find an IndyCar seat.

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:14 am

So; a GP2 title show down on the streets of Singapore. I cannot think of a riskier place on the calendar for the finale. Judging from practice, it will be chaotic.

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:31 am

The higher the stakes the better the game.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 GP2 race thread   Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:34 am

I think so. From watching practice, the drivers were fighting wheel spin and staying in a straight line was hard for some.

Its going to be entertaining.

Live on Sky Sports F1 tomorrow morning and Sunday morning.

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