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 The New DTM starts here!!

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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Tue May 01, 2012 6:17 am

A delicate, fragile touring car is like a Land Rover that cannot go off road – not fit for purpose.

The downforce has increased where it matters, at the rear. The front/rear tracks have also been widened, so the cars are arguably even more stable.

I don’t get why DTM cars need to be like open wheelers. Excessive downforce, sprouting aero bits and carbon brakes don’t belong on a touring car. I predict that unless it’s wet, every race apart from Hockenheim and Norisring will be boring – back to square one.

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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Sun May 06, 2012 3:48 am

BMW sweeps front row at Lausitz

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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Sun May 06, 2012 4:50 am

Lausitzring is a tough place to pass for these cars; it’s pretty much follow the leader with corner-after-corner and few straightaways. 2005 was a notable example of this; Paffett did everything but drive through Ekstrom to try and win.

I’m fairly surprised at BMW’s pace. DTM rules are basically the same as they’ve been since 2000, yet BMW has built a brand new monocoque and made it instantly competitive against far more experienced constructors – impressive.

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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Wed May 09, 2012 5:24 am

Mobil 1 wrote:
I’m fairly surprised at BMW’s pace. DTM rules are basically the same as they’ve been since 2000, yet BMW has built a brand new monocoque and made it instantly competitive against far more experienced constructors – impressive.

And they're now race winners - mightily impressive. germanyflag

20 years since BMW last won in 1992 courtesy of Ravaglia, and the marque's 50th overall victory courtesy of Spengler.



The M3 looks sinister in this livery. 1:18 now please. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Wed May 09, 2012 6:59 am

That does look menacing; I’m not keen on matt black though. I prefer the traditionalism of Tomczyk’s livery. I agree with you though CJ about these M3’s being made in 1:18, it’s a necessity.

Paffett almost had a carbon copy of 2005 happen to him last Sunday; he was faster but had little chance of getting by the Lausitzring.


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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Wed May 09, 2012 7:22 am

Mobil 1 wrote:
That does look menacing; I’m not keen on matt black though. I prefer the traditionalism of Tomczyk’s livery. I agree with you though CJ about these M3’s being made in 1:18, it’s a necessity.

Paffett almost had a carbon copy of 2005 happen to him last Sunday; he was faster but had little chance of getting by the Lausitzring.

Wouldn't mind Tomczyk's car in 1:18 too. Wink

I guess in some ways the Lausitzring is a bit like Monaco: not exactly the overtaking capital of the motorsport world.
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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Wed May 09, 2012 7:37 am

Quite right. You can forgive Monaco though, because of the proximity of the buildings. The organisers cannot remove someone’s house to create a longer straight. But the Lausitzring is a permanent facility with many options to the organisers. If I were them, I’d run the banking, then the first proper corner would be the existing corner when they re-enter the oval.

Hockenheim works so well because of the long straights into tight corners.

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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Sat May 19, 2012 8:30 pm

Seven tenths of a second covered the whole field in the first Brands Hatch practice. I think they’ll have to move each other out of the way to pass…the good old bump and run.

Looking forward to it.

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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Sun May 20, 2012 3:48 am

Same here. Looks like it could be a straight out fight between Mercedes and BMW. But then Audi might pull a surprise. Who knows? Question

I'll be there Sunday. First visit to Brands after 3 years.
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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Sun May 20, 2012 4:00 am

Audi has been a curious case this year, even when they’ve had optimum track position; they simply haven’t had a strong race pace. Their pace tails off considerably during a stint.

I’m still surprised at how quickly BMW has gotten up to speed. They’ve entered a sport with relatively similar rules, yet the M3 is right on the pace. It’s not like they could lean on their WTCC experience or something.

Really great to see a Briton on pole with the Three Pointed Star. Paffett managed to get pole even though he skimmed the gravel on the exit of Paddock Hill.

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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Sun May 20, 2012 9:07 am

Rocky set a lap record in Q3 from the tweets. i saw

I still don't understand way they use indy track for DTM, i know must be for money or some reason.....

should be a close race.
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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Mon May 21, 2012 6:39 am

That’s a good question, there’s no real official reason for running the Indy track. Sure, other events currently occupy the set-weekends that the GP circuit is allowed to be used (those fabulous local residents). But, if there’s any series that is suited to the GP loop, it’s DTM.

I don’t think running the GP loop would do anything for overtaking, though. Hawthorns is way too fast to see overtaking, and the rest is just a no-no. Brands Hatch is generally a narrow track, and really doesn’t suit wide, aero dependent machines. Brands Hatch is possibly the best racing facility in the UK, but some championships don’t suit Brands.

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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Mon May 21, 2012 6:43 am

I really enjoyed the day, it was great seeing you again Mark. The crowd was very impressive, and they saw a great drive from Paffett. He drove a textbook race, reallt nice to see Mercedes-Benz winning.

The actual DTM race wasn’t too bad, poor Vietoris got truly mugged in the opening laps; he went from third to eight in two laps! Spenger did well to hang onto second place. I saw the splitter damage with my own eyes, he took too much kerb into Paddock hill which sent it sparking. Thankfully it stopped sparking after a while.

Coulthard was a bit rude to Priaulx, he shoved him off the circuit in Graham Hill bend. Priaulx was sinking like a rock anyway, not sure what happened to him. Maybe this is a new feature with these engines, but the engines sound like fireworks popping when off-throttle.

Did anybody see the NASCAR Touring race? That was truly excellent, anybody who waited around was treated to a great race. They were dive-bombing each other in almost every turn, and sideways off the corners. I stood at Druids for that race, and that was the place to be with all the overtaking.

Those cars are impressively robust. The drivers made a lot of contact; with bend sheet metal and deranged bumpers, but could still continue at an okay pace.

Sorry to say, but the NASCAR race was more entertaining than the DTM…

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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Mon May 21, 2012 6:56 am

I haven't seen a DTM race since the first one and i think DTM need to do a little tweaking thats all. The new cars are a improvement look much better but simple tweak however they need to relise this.....
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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Mon May 21, 2012 9:58 am

To be honest, the revised cars aren’t really much different. If one looks beyond the hype; the chassis’, aero, brakes and other bits are the same. The reverting back to coupes is nothing more than window dressing, too.

I’ve always thought that DTM has the basic bits right. The engines sound spectacular, the series is promoted well and it has the right manufacturers. The excessive downforce and carbon brakes should be ditched, it will create better racing. At the moment, the braking zones are too short and the cars are still glued to the track. DTM cars handle amazingly, and that’s the precise problem.

Shortly afterwards; the NASCAR race featured cars squirming under throttle, longer braking zones and minimum downforce for following cars – bumping and rubbing too. I cannot help but feel that DTM needs to look at something like the Eurocar, and replicate the simplicity. It might not be sophisticated, but who cares when you have racing like that.


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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Wed May 23, 2012 7:17 am

forget DTM its a German manufacturer publicity series, Superstars is far more like what DTM should be. Loads of different brands, the 3 in DTM plus Chevy, Jaguar, and the ones that didn't sadly come to the UK Lexus, Cadillac and Chrysler, nice loud V8 engines, hardly any aero bits. Audi have the upper hand currently, but they race each other and pass. It doesnt have the profile over here and Motors TV coverage isnt great, but that's likely to be down to not having the money DTM throw at their series. It does have a lot of potential.
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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Thu May 24, 2012 6:50 am

Mobil 1 wrote:
I really enjoyed the day, it was great seeing you again Mark. The crowd was very impressive, and they saw a great drive from Paffett. He drove a textbook race, reallt nice to see Mercedes-Benz winning.


It was good to see you to Sav Smile

I know what you mean about the crowd it was crazy the amount of people there, many more than I have ever seen at the DTM event.

I have edited some photos and have sent them off to be printed. I wanna see what they look like before I put them on here, as I was using a brand new camera at Brands for the first time Wink

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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Thu May 24, 2012 7:06 am

Know what you mean Mark, a lot of people attended in 2008 when Hamilton did his F1 demo, but I think Sunday had more people around. It was certainly encouraging, because some years have been a bit bare.

Ah, I look forward to seeing those. I also have got pictures, revised those so I'll put them up soon. Cool

Nick, I do agree with you; DTM hugely benefits from good marketing, the right promotional partners and car makers. The cars need far more radical change to produce truly exciting racing. Having guys like DC and Ralf are quick ways to grab attention, but from a long-term point of view, the cars need to become like touring cars - a little bumping should be possible imo.

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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Fri May 25, 2012 8:42 am

I haven't watched DTM on a regular basis for a while but looking at some of the drivers in it I would say the gap in performance between teams is too much. When I stopped watching it a couple of years back I got the feeling certain drivers where becoming disheartened because of uncompetitive machinery . I worry for the likes of Wickens and Merhi who clearly have a lot of talent but might get no chance to shine in DTM which would be a double blow because it would put off future talented drivers coming in to prove themselves. I'll try to catch a few races, I feel a bit dumb for not noticing they were jsut down the road at brands to other day.
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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Sat May 26, 2012 10:26 am

Not sure on that, seven tenths of a second covered the whole 22 car field on Friday practice at Brands. BMW has gotten up to speed extremely quickly, considering their lack of experience in modern DTM. That’s ensured that the field is still competitive, even with tweaked regulations.

I’d say the opposite has happened, especially in recent years. The gap between older cars and “factory” cars has narrowed, as the DTM has frozen development. Di Resta had amazing results in a two year old C-Class in 2007; he was the first driver to really achieve good results in old machinery. Tomczyk won the championship in a privateer team last year. Abt, HWA and Schnitzer will always have consistently good results, but the smaller teams have caught up – no doubt helped by the DTM organisers.

Does that mean DTM has become more exciting? Not really, a competitive field won’t help passing with the excess downforce of the cars.


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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:11 am

DTM race at the red bull ring seem to be good by the sounds of it.

I really hope DTM people look at it all.....and relise the cars have to much downforce we need more passing........Sadly the probably will not.
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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:13 am

I actually thought that the race was good; there was a lot of contact, mistakes and some decent passing. The A1-Ring has always been good for racing though, whatever cars run there.

DTM is too dependent on wide tracks with heavy braking for overtaking; only A1-Ring, Hockenheim and Norisring have a chance of being decent races. DTM 2012 has been pitched as a new era, but the bad bit of the old era still remains. Having BMW return is very good, but these cars are just too planted to the race track.

There isn’t another touring car that has the braking distances of DTM cars, with the braking so short; there isn’t much opportunity to dive underneath somebody. DTM organisers need to realise that fans don’t care if a car is three seconds a lap slower, if they produce more excitement – that’s what matters.

The advert of the fastest touring cars in the world is irrelevant – if they’re the most exciting to watch…


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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:28 am

A great race track that was wet produced a stunning DTM race. That’s the best DTM race I’ve seen…since last year at the Norisring!

That first turn was guaranteed to be a mess; it even spun the leader around. Farfus didn’t have anywhere to go, but his contact really messed up Ekstrom’s race in particular. Adrian Tambey wins the body panel-bashing award; he sure enjoyed roughing up a few rivals.

To have the victory decided on the last corner, last lap just topped off a great race. Tomczyk will rue that for the rest of his life, I suspect. Green drove a stunning race to pass both BMW’s at the end.

Even though the weather played its part, that’s what DTM should be like week in, week out. A little paint swooping and panel bashing, regular battles and cars which aren’t glued to the track – that can be replicated in the dry.

With the wet track being more about driver feel, mechanical grip and slower cornering speeds, the evil effects of excess downforce were nulled, too. It was like somebody took most of the downforce off, and it was real touring car racing.

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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:02 am

final 2 DTM races.

1Gary Paffett HWA 127
2Bruno SpenglerBMW Team Schnitzer 116
3Jamie Green HWA 108

i still think paffett is prime position.

off to valencia for the race on monday! Very Happy with Mark so it should be good!!
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PostSubject: Re: The New DTM starts here!!   Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:49 pm

Have a great time. Very Happy
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