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PostSubject: Re: IndyCar - Las Vegas   Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:37 am

Downforce is a problem is just about all motorsport, from f1 to le mans from NASCAR indycar and touring cars.

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PostSubject: Re: IndyCar - Las Vegas   Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:40 pm

Mobil 1 wrote:
Death creates interest, intrigue and therefore media attention. That is terrible, but that's how it's been for ages. When Dario flipped upside down at Michigan a while back, Sky News showed the crash when they never usually report on IndyCar. On the flip side though, at least the mass media has informed viewers of Wheldon's achievments, driving talent and showed who he was. Even though they couldn't give a crap about IndyCar.

All media outlets are as guilty as each other, but the Daily Mail is a particularly repulsive publication in general.

Yes, it will show. what a great guy Dan Wheldon was and his achievments.

All Media are Guilty but the british do suck.
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PostSubject: Re: IndyCar - Las Vegas   Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:28 am

That's always been one aspect about the media that I hate: as soon as something like this happens, they all jump on the bandwagon only to forget all about it the next day until the next time something bad/controversial happens.

It raises awareness for the wrong reasons.
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PostSubject: Re: IndyCar - Las Vegas   Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:10 am

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PostSubject: Re: IndyCar - Las Vegas   Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:20 am

You can always trust The Sun, a Murdoch-owned newspaper to say such desperate claims. It’s a shame that newspapers can only survive by stating lies.

Quote :
IndyCar chief Randy Bernard wanted ‘carnage’

Now now dear, no need to get your knickers in a twist. Randy Bernard never said he wanted to cause carnage for the Las Vegas round, so how dare you suggest that Bernard wanted big accidents to occur and for someone to die.

In fact, looking for this “carnage” claim by Bernard, it was related to a comment about bringing in double-file restarts, oh, hang on – the accident wasn’t after a restart!!!

Quote :
Now IndyCar chief executive Bernard is under the spotlight for pushing safety boundaries to the limit in a bid to attract bigger crowds.

Eh, excuse me? Since when did running at Las Vegas Motor Speedway equate to “pushing safety boundaries”? This track is no more dangerous than Texas or Chicagoland Speedway, and IndyCar has run at those tracks for multiple years (when Bernard wasn’t in charge). If you haven’t got a clue about what you’re talking about – keep your mouth shut.

How dare tabloids suggest that Bernard was some kind of negligent thrill seeker, Randy Bernard is a much better boss than Tony George was. We have more road/street courses and finally have a new car – that’s under Bernard’s directorship. Randy Bernard cares about IndyCar, the competitors and making it more popular.


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PostSubject: Re: IndyCar - Las Vegas   Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:36 am

Sky do show Indy Car though.

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PostSubject: Re: IndyCar - Las Vegas   Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:07 am

Mobil 1 wrote:


Quote :
IndyCar chief Randy Bernard wanted ‘carnage’

Now now dear, no need to get your knickers in a twist. Randy Bernard never said he wanted to cause carnage for the Las Vegas round, so how dare you suggest that Bernard wanted big accidents to occur and for someone to die.

In fact, looking for this “carnage” claim by Bernard, it was related to a comment about bringing in double-file restarts, oh, hang on – the accident wasn’t after a restart!!!

that is proper twisting words. it was on lap 11 there was no restart

Quote :
Now IndyCar chief executive Bernard is under the spotlight for pushing safety boundaries to the limit in a bid to attract bigger crowds.

Quote :
Eh, excuse me? Since when did running at Las Vegas Motor Speedway equate to “pushing safety boundaries”? This track is no more dangerous than Texas or Chicagoland Speedway, and IndyCar has run at those tracks for multiple years (when Bernard wasn’t in charge). If you haven’t got a clue about what you’re talking about – keep your mouth shut.

it annoys me people when people starting about stuff they have no idea on. jump on the bandwagon and make a comment and it was safe, i don't think indy car would run on an unsafe oval at over 200MPH

Quote :
How dare tabloids suggest that Bernard was some kind of negligent thrill seeker, Randy Bernard is a much better boss than Tony George was. We have more road/street courses and finally have a new car – that’s under Bernard’s directorship. Randy Bernard cares about IndyCar, the competitors and making it more popular.

if i was Bernard i would not stand for that. they basicly saying that he wanted a death, not on from the sun. shocking. I agree Bernard has improved the series as you said new car, i don't think we would of got that with Tony.

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PostSubject: Re: IndyCar - Las Vegas   Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:40 am

I think it's important to recognise how safe 1.5 mile ovals have become - except for the catch fencing. Most of them have wide run off areas to the inside, and almost all of them have SAFER barriers on the outside and inside of the track. It's the style of IndyCar racing on 1.5 ovals which is too dangerous and boring.

Mark Webber’s column on the BBC F1 website makes for interesting reading: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/15376777.stm

He attributes cold brakes as a reason why an incident ahead is hard to avoid. That’s an excellent point, on these 1.5 mile ovals they never touch the brake pedal - except for when slowing down for a caution or going into the pits. Racing pads and discs are often heat sensitive, and need regular use to gain that heat in order to function properly. I don’t know much about IndyCar brakes, but I don’t see how cold brakes help to slow down.

I disagree with his point about Las Vegas being a “short” oval though, in America, a short oval is considered to be 1 mile or less. A 1.5 mile oval is considered a big oval, and you look at the run off areas to the inside of the track – it certainly is. Indianapolis is one of very few ovals that is over 2 miles in length, Poconco would be another (IndyCar used to race there). Daytona and Talladega don’t count.

Even if you had 34 cars at a place like New Hampshire Motor Speedway, a 1 mile track, the drivers are able to differentiate themselves - meaning no pack, nose-to-tail racing. That would be even more the case if the HP was increased.

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PostSubject: Re: IndyCar - Las Vegas   Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:40 am

The number of cars that crashed clouds the issue a bit in my opinion. Cars going up in the air is dangerous in any open wheeler, Webbers crash last year could have been tragic if he had been slightly more to the right and caught the catch fence which he barely missed. For the ovals I think the best option in raising the safer barriers, they have been fantastic in reducing the injuries to drivers since there introduction. I know this would mean a lot of work raising the stands and fences at some ovals but those barriers are less than double the height of an indy car at the moment. At least around the corners, they could raise them, that fence Dan hit was guarding some bill boards, I'd like to see safer barriers instead.
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PostSubject: Re: IndyCar - Las Vegas   Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:10 am

That's a good idea, although Americans like ovals so they can see virtually all the track. I think that would be hindered if the SAFER barriers were raised. I don't have that obsession, as long as there is a TV screen so I can follow the rest of the race.

In general, more safety improvements can be done on road courses than on ovals. On RD's, run off can often be increased, kerbs can be altered, gravel can be replaced etc. With banked ovals, there is no way to increase run off to the outside - a big limitation. That's not important for NASCAR, but it's very important for IndyCar with the extra speed thus less reaction time.

The 2012 IndyCar schedule will be interesting, will they still run at places like Vegas or Fontana, or scrap them?

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PostSubject: Re: IndyCar - Las Vegas   Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:53 am

Mobil 1 wrote:
I think it's important to recognise how safe 1.5 mile ovals have become - except for the catch fencing. Most of them have wide run off areas to the inside, and almost all of them have SAFER barriers on the outside and inside of the track. It's the style of IndyCar racing on 1.5 ovals which is too dangerous and boring.

I don't think 1.5 ovals will be on the calender, there might be one or something due to contracts but watching Chicagoland Speedway 2010 race. it was very close racing and you could hardly pass. plus i don't think many enjoy that close at 200Mph+ TK didn't at all.
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PostSubject: Re: IndyCar - Las Vegas   Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:45 am

I think Texas will stay, as TMS isn’t owned by a NASCAR company. But it’s tricky for IndyCar to race at adequate 1.5 mile ovals, as most of them are owned by Speedway Corp (NASCAR). That’s why IndyCar ditched Homestead, Chicagoland and Kansas – the crowds were minuscule and Speedway Corp couldn’t be bothered to promote IndyCar.

For better safety, excitement and a sustainable financial future; IndyCar should focus on road/street courses, short ovals and the Indianapolis 500.

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PostSubject: Re: IndyCar - Las Vegas   Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:30 am



Nascar tribute To Dan Wheldon. very emotional and very well done. Nicole Briscoe did an exceptional job! Crying or Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: IndyCar - Las Vegas   Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:07 am

I watched that live, for the Talladega pre-race show. As you say, you could really near Nicole's emotion there. Not surprising as her husband was in last weekend's race.

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PostSubject: Re: IndyCar - Las Vegas   Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:12 am

did anyone watch the memorial honouring Dan Wheldon. it was live on indy car.com

it was so emotional and sad. great stories by people involed with Wheldon,

it was sad to begin with it set me off. then the great stories came which helped a lot then they did final song.....set me off again.

RIP Dan wheldon

Gone but never forgotten
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PostSubject: Re: IndyCar - Las Vegas   Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:18 am

NASCAR mentioned Dan Wheldon in the pre-race ceremony, and several cars carried that logo in your picture.

Wheldon is one of few Britons who made it big in premier American open-wheel racing, he wasn't the best road course racer - but he was epic on ovals. Even in an average car at Indianapolis, he could finish in the top three.

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PostSubject: Re: IndyCar - Las Vegas   Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:27 am

The Tribute that nascar paid was very emotional.

If you get chance to see memorial honouring Dan Wheldon. its really heart felt. it was sad, it was funny, it was what dan wheldon would of want it to be. he got up to all kinds of things. He was one of the lads.

he was the master on ovals. 2009-2nd 2010-2nd 2011-1st. just those 3 races at indy showed how good he was. 2008 iowa 1st kanass 1st 2010 chicagoland 2nd! that is a few of the races.

its a nice logo!
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PostSubject: Re: IndyCar - Las Vegas   Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:04 am

BDRC have given Dan the lifetime achievement award. Collected by his father Clive.

(RIP DW)
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PostSubject: Re: IndyCar - Las Vegas   Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:36 pm

IndyCar’s report into Dan Wheldon’s terrible death has revealed that contact with a fence pole and a consequent head injury caused his death: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96762

The fence pole wouldn’t have been an issue if they weren’t running full throttle, nose-to-tail. I worry that IndyCar chiefs don’t think that running in a pack, inches apart and full throttle for a whole lap is ridiculous.

I’ll give you an example, these same fence poles are at short tracks like New Hampshire. But, the drivers have to blend off the throttle for the flat, tight corners – so fencing never becomes an issue. The fundamentals of racing on 1.5 mile, high banked ovals need to be addressed. Either make the cars insanely powerful (never going to happen) or ditch all 1.5, high banked mile ovals. Clutching at straws at some fencing is not going to solve the bigger problem.

Quote :
While we've had pack racing at other racetracks before, such as Chicagoland or Texas or other one and a half mile high banked ovals, there is always a limit. You can be two wide or three wide, but at time when's you got to the upper lane of Texas or Chicago, whether it's dusty, the grip level lowered, whatever, you couldn't use the entire racetrack.

What was evident in the Las Vegas event was that the entire racetrack was useable and the lanes were limitless. That was a variable that had not been seen before.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-las-vegas-crash-press-conference-transcript//P2/

I see the point they are making, in the sense of other 1.5 mile ovals having a limit of how far up the track a driver can move up. But nevertheless, the Las Vegas race was a reply of the fundamental racing at Texas, Chicagoland and Homestead that’s been happening for years. At all of these tracks, the drivers run wide open in clean air, dirty air, on a low line and on a higher line. The drivers don’t have many options at these tracks; they either run wide open or get run over from behind.

With NASCAR cars being so much heavier, more powerful and having far less downforce – they don’t have this problem. At Texas Motor Speedway, for example, a NASCAR driver has to brake for corners. That allows drivers to race each other into corners, thus creating differentiation and not running nose-to-tail. In contrast, an IndyCar is 100 % on the throttle for the whole lap.

I appreciate that Las Vegas is slightly different to other high banked, 1.5 mile ovals. But, the wide open, pack racing only happens at these types of venues – and that’s no coincidence. It’s a crying shame that IndyCar cannot race at some of tracks it needs to be at.

If there is one positive of this report, is that it's rubbished those bullshit theories about the track being too short and too many cars entered. These airborne wrecks have happened with barley 20 cars at Michigan, which is an even longer and wider track.

Will drivers blending off the throttle and braking into corners eliminate the risk of flying cars and death? Of course not, it’s a high speed of motor racing after all. But, running flat out, nose-to-tail in identical cars on highly banked ovals has always been a recipe for disaster – just like numerous wrecks have showcased since IRL was formed in 1997. And the worst bit of all: its utterly tedious to watch.

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