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PostSubject: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:06 am



now what this is I don't know. A video posted on Porsche channel of You tuba (is that a genuine channel I don't know) but it's proclaim a full return to Le Sarthe for 2014 with a full P1 car.

Real or Hoax I don't know but if it's real it's very good news.


Last edited by unsuitable uncle on Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:30 am

i am not sure about this? be good if they came back......they coming back with hybride? hmmm

we will see!
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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:33 am

MotorracingP wrote:
i am not sure about this? be good if they came back......they coming back with hybride? hmmm

we will see!
This is what Autosport said......
Porsche will return to the Le Mans 24 Hours with a full factory LMP1 prototype in 2014, the Stuttgart-based sportscar manufacturer has announced.


As the event's most successful manufacturer, the company has not been represented in a works capacity in the top class at Le Mans since 1998 when Porsche claimed the last of its 16 outright victories with Allan McNish, Stephane Ortelli and Laurent Aiello in the 911 GT1.

It has retained a strong presence in the GT class since then, however.

President of the Executive Board at Porsche AG, Matthias Muller, said the company had always intended to return to Le Mans as a factory team and had been waiting for the right time to announce its intentions.

"Motorsport was always an essential part of the Porsche brand," said Müller. "So for us it was only a matter of time before we returned as a factory to the top league of racing.

"Porsche's successes in Le Mans are unrivalled. We want to follow up on this with the 17th outright victory."

Porsche's last factory involvement in the prototype class was its successful American Le Mans Series-winning LMP2 RS Spyder - which was run and developed by Penske.

The company has not released details on the new project, or whether it will be a coupe or an open roof car, but indicated that it wanted to make the most of the Automobile Club de l'Ouest's inticing approach to green technologies.

Hartmut Kristen, Head of Porsche Motorsport, said: "We're looking forward to the task of developing new technologies and to continue on with the success of the Porsche RS Spyder. After the conclusion of our works-supported sports prototype programme in the American Le Mans Series we have kept up with the latest technological advances.

"Now we will begin with detailed research in order to evaluate the various concept alternatives for our new car.

"These obviously depend on how the regulations for the year 2014 look in detail. In principle, these regulations are interesting for us because the integration of our hybrid technology in the vehicle concept is one possible option."

Porsche indicated that it could use the new project to highlight new technologies as it did recently with the 911 GT3 R Hybrid, which raced in the recent Nurburgring 24 Hours with the flywheel KERS system developed by Williams.

"With the RS Spyder we proved that our motorsport engineers in Weissach are at the forefront," said Wolfgang Hatz, Board Member for Research and Development at Porsche AG. "For instance, we were the first to run a high-revving race engine with direct fuel injection, DFI, setting new standards in performance and efficiency.

"Recently, with the 911 GT3 R Hybrid, we adopted a completely new drive technology for racing purposes and achieved a considerable reduction in consumption."

Porsche's run of victories at Le Mans began in 1970 with Richard Attwood and Hans Herrmann in the fabled 917. The French track then witnessed the marque dominate through the 1980s, with a consecutive wins from '81 - '87, the last six of those with the 956/962 derivatives.




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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:38 am

What Daily Sports Car said..........

“Motorsport was always an essential part of the Porsche brand,” said Matthias Müller, President of the Executive Board at Porsche AG. “So for us it was only a matter of time before we returned as a factory to the top league of racing. Porsche’s successes in Le Mans are unrivalled. We want to follow up on this with the 17th outright victory."

Porsche's last overall win came in 1998, with the 911 GT1, but the RS Spyder proved itself to be the class of LMP2 racing across the globe in recent years and the intention is to build on its legacy.

“With the RS Spyder we proved that our motorsport engineers in Weissach are at the forefront,” said Wolfgang Hatz, Board Member for Research and Development at Porsche AG. “For instance, we were the first to run a high-revving race engine with direct fuel injection, DFI, setting new standards in performance and efficiency. Recently, with the 911 GT3 R Hybrid, we adopted a completely new drive technology for racing purposes and achieved a considerable reduction in consumption.”

“We’re looking forward to the task of developing new technologies and to continue on with the success of the Porsche RS Spyder," said Hartmut Kristen, Head of Porsche Motorsport. "After the conclusion of our works-supported sports prototype programme in the American Le Mans Series we have kept up with the latest technological advances. Now we will begin with detailed research in order to evaluate the various concept alternatives for our new car. These obviously depend on how the regulations for the year 2014 look in detail. In principle, these regulations are interesting for us because the integration of our hybrid technology in the vehicle concept is one possible option.”

This is excellent news for Le Mans-regs racing. Might this announcement prompt other manufacturers to give the green light to their own programmes?











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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:40 am

if it's in autosport it can't be true.
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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:42 am

if its anything like The RS spyder. its going to be good!
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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:43 am

Audi's reply

Quote :
Audi's statement on Porsche's Le Mans return: "This is the decision of Porsche company, a decision in which Audi is not involved. Audi relishes the prospect of every strong new opponent at Le Mans and in the new FIA World Endurance Championship. Porsche’s entry into the LMP1 class is evidence of the high level of attraction of sport prototypes."
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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:47 am

I find it fascinating that Audi have felt the need to publicly respond to Porsche’s announcement, of course, it’s because both companies are part of the same automotive group. Some interesting internal politics is brewing!

But, I find it utterly bizarre that two company’s within the same group may compete for the same prize. Surely Audi and Porsche cannot compete for the Le Mans victory when they are in effect from the same stable? That would be like Citroen and Peugeot competing fielding factory entries for WRC – both from PSA.

I think it’s a fantastic announcement though, in my mind, thinking about Le Mans reminds me of Porsche – to a bigger extent like Formula One and Ferrari. I like the way Porsche are going about developing new technologies in motorsport, the GT3 R Hybrid is a fantastic example of how a racing car can still retain its aural appeal whilst having a sustainable concept (the KERS). I really hope they make a petrol engined car with KERS technology with a minimum of six cylinders.

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:53 am

actually
Quote :
That would be like Citroen and Peugeot competing fielding factory entries for WRC – both from PSA.
is a bad example as they did compete in wrc for 2 or 3 years.

Porsche have never really been that close to VAG it's not like seat where they do what there told. Porsche have never followed the VAG line.

THere cars race each other in gt3 with the Audi R8 LMS and The Porsche 997 GT3 Cup R
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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:16 am

Quote :
is a bad example as they did compete in wrc for 2 or 3 years.

Its a fantastic example, thank you for making my point. Citroen entered WRC and Peugeot left for good soon after. Both brand's didn't continue to fight each other. That's why Citroen don't enter IRC - Peugeot are in that.

Quote :
Porsche have never really been that close to VAG it's not like seat where they do what there told. Porsche have never followed the VAG line.

You make it sound like Porsche have been part of VAG for decades!

The Porsche Cayenne and Panamera both use the same diesel and hybrid engines from VW and Audi cars. Also, the Porsche Cayenne and VW Touareg share the same underpinnings. And, a small sportscar that fits below the Boxster is going to be shared between Audi, Porsche and VW - but with different branding for each. If that's not towing the VAG line and being closely linked with them, I don't know what is. Porsche are still uniquely engineered, like the 911 and the flat six motor - but lets not dream too much that Porsche are not becoming closer to the overall VAG group.

The Porsche 997 GT3 is run by privateers and also the Audi R8 is mostly run by privateers - so Porsche and Audi don't care about their brands competing on at the same time on that basis.

I'm not saying that both Porsche and Audi competing directly for the same prize at Le Mans could never happen, but it would be strange that in effect, the same financial resources being provided twice over to achieve the same object of winning Le Mans and other endurance races.

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:35 am

[quote="Mobil 1"]
Quote :
is a bad example as they did compete in wrc for 2 or 3 years.

Its a fantastic example, thank you for making my point. Citroen entered WRC and Peugeot left for good soon after. Both brand's didn't continue to fight each other. That's why Citroen don't enter IRC - Peugeot are in that.

Quote :
Porsche have never really been that close to VAG it's not like seat where they do what there told. Porsche have never followed the VAG line.

peugeot didn't leave because of citreon joining

and actually the fact that both porsche and audi have a gt3 car means that they are competitng for sale
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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:33 am

Quote :
peugeot didn't leave because of citreon joining

Yeah, sure.

The main point is that brands from the same company rarely field factory efforts in a type of discipline.

Quote :
and actually the fact that both porsche and audi have a gt3 car means that they are competitng for sale

I really don’t think that privateer products can be compared to two brands within the same company doing full assaults on the same type of racing, trying to win the same money. Sugar coat it all you want, but VAG providing double the financial resources for two separate teams to win the same race doesn’t make sense.

Off topic, but comparable road cars from the same group are common too. VAG’s road car products often do directly compete with each other in theory, Seat and VW cars for example, but they are aimed at different customers and differing levels of wealth. Unlike having two Le Mans projects, each road car brand is aimed at different people to increase overall sales.

I suspect Audi will drop out of LMP1 before or soon after Porsche enters, although Audi will never admit that and give some “strategic corporate shift” malarkey to cover it up.



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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:07 am

Why would Audi drop out?.......they are not losing? i understand if its not going well and its time to call it a day. i think Audi will still be in prototype ranks by 2014 comes along however we will see what the rules are going to be in 2014 that will make the differance.
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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:45 am

Because if Porsche enter in 2014, then VAG don't need two teams both fighting for the same victory. I'm not saying it cannot happen, but it would be unusual for the reasons stated.

It would be like Fiat deciding to set up their own team and beat Ferrari in F1. Two different brands under the same company.

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:10 pm

Porsche and audi factory teams race in vln at the nurburgring. It might say manthey on porsche sand phoenix or abt on the audi's but the factory teams.

They also raced each other in alms for 4 glourious years
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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:51 pm

But Porsche don't really class them self in the VAG group from what i am hearing....yes they maybe a part of it.

yes VLN, its big money the amount of cars on the grid. so if porsche stop selling because Audi are in and they lose money? and its not just VLN.. ADAC, blancpain, FIA GT3 but the new world championship is going to have GT3 cars.


What a season they were. 2008 one of the best season ever!.
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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:28 pm

MotorracingP wrote:
But Porsche don't really class them self in the VAG group from what i am hearing....yes they maybe a part of it.

yes VLN, its big money the amount of cars on the grid. so if porsche stop selling because Audi are in and they lose money? and its not just VLN.. ADAC, blancpain, FIA GT3 but the new world championship is going to have GT3 cars.


What a season they were. 2008 one of the best season ever!.

Porsche might be part of but they like being part of vag and don't act as part of vag.
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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:49 am

unsuitable uncle wrote:
MotorracingP wrote:
But Porsche don't really class them self in the VAG group from what i am hearing....yes they maybe a part of it.

yes VLN, its big money the amount of cars on the grid. so if porsche stop selling because Audi are in and they lose money? and its not just VLN.. ADAC, blancpain, FIA GT3 but the new world championship is going to have GT3 cars.


What a season they were. 2008 one of the best season ever!.

Porsche might be part of but they like being part of vag and don't act as part of vag.

Couldn't put it better thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:00 am

I think it's good that Porsche are returning. Should add a bit more competitiveness to the Audi & Peugeot Show (LMP1 class).

With 2014 seemingly being a significant year for various motorsport classes (F1 changing to 1.6L turbo V6s etc.), perhaps Le Mans could see more than just one manufacture entering the ranks. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:48 am

Quote :
Porsche and audi factory teams race in vln at the nurburgring. It might say manthey on porsche sand phoenix or abt on the audi's but the factory teams.

Point taken. But Porsche know that the production R8 won’t be around for much longer, and then Porsche will have no inner-rivalry in that respect.

However, the fact that Audi and Porsche produce cars for the same GT classes is not comparable at all to both marques’ potentially fielding LMP1 prototype entries. The reason because, with the GT cars – both marque’s mainly compete on a privateer basis – so both marque’s make money from privateers buying their cars.

If both marque’s were to field LMP1 entries, there would be no real plan of return on investment, by selling many of their respective prototype’s. The sole objective for both marques would be to win Le Mans and little else – and that’s VAG paying twice to win Le Mans. And despite whatever arguments you come up with, that doesn’t make financial sense for the group as a whole.

Quote :
They also raced each other in alms for 4 glourious years

Firstly: Porsche were not part of VAG when they both were in ALMS. Secondly: they were competing for different championships. Even though they often competed for the race wins directly, they were chasing different goals.

Quote :
But Porsche don't really class them self in the VAG group from what i am hearing....yes they maybe a part of it.

According to whom?

Porsche use VW and Audi engines, chassis platforms, and, are even going to share a road sportcar with VW and Audi. Whatever anybody tells you, Porsche’s product range is ever expanding with more SUV’s and Saloon’s – and that’s going to include more engine and platform sharing with Audi and VW.

That’s what makes VAG so successful, their ability to have the same chassis’/engines, but charge different prices with their brands – making them very profitable. And Porsche isn’t excluded from that engine, chassis and other component sharing - and the evidence is firmly there to support that notion. Therefore, they will become more and more heavily entrenched within VAG as time goes on.

Porsche will always have unique models, like the 911 with its rear engine layout – but Porsche’s sportscars are no longer their core production models. The Porsche 4x4’s and Saloons that are VAG clones are already the core models. So the importance of the link between Porsche and the overall VAG Group is becoming ever greater. Not sure about this ‘acting’ not be part of VAG bullshit – they are becoming more and more integrated into the group, as I've shown – whether anybody wants to dream or not.


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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:55 am

Quote :
According to whom?

porsche have been fighting the buyout since it started, they even tryied to buy vag

Quote :
Porsche use VW and Audi engines, chassis platforms, and, are even going to share a road sportcar with VW and Audi. Whatever anybody tells you, Porsche’s product range is ever expanding with more SUV’s and Saloon’s – and that’s going to include more engine and platform sharing with Audi and VW.

that started with the ceyenne in 2000 and they cancelled there le mans program then for audi

why would audi as a company stop when porsche comes in. As an individual company it makes no sense to stop.

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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:13 am

Not sure what Porsche not being happy about being bought by VAG has anything to do with the indisputable fact that Porsche's product range is increasingly becoming VAG related, with VW and Audi bits.

With Porsche's non-sportscars becoming their best selling models, the component share with VAG's other marque's has proliferated massively. It is totally irrelevant how Porsche feels about VAG buying them, because VAG will ultimately dictate their product expansion plans whether Porsche like it or not.

Now that's not to say that all Porsche's will become VAG clones, the 911 will always be a bespoke product - but their bread and butter models (the Saloon's and 4x4's) are VAG clones - therefore that link with VAG is becoming ever more important - whatever anybody likes to pretend to think.

Certain people are suggesting that Porsche are a company that don't do what VAG wants, and do their own thing instead - which is utter bullshit.

Quote :
why would audi as a company stop when porsche comes in. As an individual company it makes no sense to stop.


No need for VAG to pay double the amount to race in LMP1. Especially as LMP1 is not a core part of Audi's growth strategy, they wouldn't loose road car sales over pulling out.


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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:36 am

Quote :


No need for VAG to pay double the amount to race in LMP1. Especially as LMP1 is not a core part of Audi's growth strategy, they wouldn't loose road car sales over pulling out.

Perhaps le mans just that good.
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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:19 am

by the sounds of it..........none of the VAG new about it happening? not even porsche north america knew about......

Well i think its well worth for the VAG doing both program at le mans......le mans is the best so much coverage.
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PostSubject: Re: Porsche at Le Mans for 2014   Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:47 am

If Audi are racing under the vag banner and spending vag money
But
If Porsche are spending Porsche money

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