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Laker
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:01 pm

MotorracingP wrote:
Laker wrote:
Ok I'm officially the most unimpressed person ever. The nearest car to the leading Audi was 29 laps back. That's not a race, that's a procession..... Great cars, amazing spectacle but I can't see how anyone can call that exciting. Sorry guys.

confused scratch Did you see any of the race? it was amazing!
I did - I saw about half an hour of about the second hour on Saturday. Wink To be fair, I don't have Digital and had no access - I had to find a stream online. I know that's hopeless and gives me no true right to comment in depth but anyway.....

If this had happened in F1, there'd have been uproar. The fastest entry's cars blew up, and they seem destined to have won as the Peugeot's speed was far greater than that of the Audis. If you scale it down and assume each lap of La Sarthe is like 2 or 3 F1 laps then it means the fastest Audi was between 0.7 and 1.1 slower per F1 lap than the fastest Peugeot - if this was the case in F1, there's be tons of critics.

Then these cars blew up and left the Audis with an even greater margin. The third placed Audi finished 25 laps ahead of the German marque's nearest challenger - that's more than a lap per hour! If you assume each F1 race lasts for an hour and a half, that's like the slower car from the winning team winning the race by a lap and a half!

I often see Cerca and other fans of endurance racing criticising F1 for not being exciting. But as Sav says, the sheer nature of endurance racing leads to it being spread out and guess what, no overtaking or even close racing for the most part. I want to see speed, strategy and wheel-to-wheel racing played out.

Don't get me wrong, there was obviously some quick driving and I guess it must have been exciting to watch the #1 Peugeot trying to make up ground on the Audis on Sunday morning. But in reality, there wasn't actually any wheel-to-wheel racing after about the fourth hour.

I have watched many hours of previous 24 hour races, particularly when I was younger and lived at home with Satellite TV. Even then, I found myself distracted quite easily, simply because cars were often half a lap apart from each other.

As I stated, I understand the appeal. It's obviously a fantastic spectacle and the technological side is mind-blowing - getting a car to go for 24 hours is a challenge in itself, let alone getting it to do that at racing speeds. And I can see why endurance racing is popular on the whole too, it just doesn't appeal to me at all. I'm sad to say the result on Sunday does nothing to enhance my desire to watch more of next year's race.
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willyj
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:23 pm

Laker wrote:
Ok I'm officially the most unimpressed person ever. The nearest car to the leading Audi was 29 laps back. That's not a race, that's a procession..... Great cars, amazing spectacle but I can't see how anyone can call that exciting. Sorry guys.

You don't like sports car racing. That's fine, I respect that. But how dare you quote inaccurate and spurious facts about the end result of a race that lasted for a whole day as if that is the sum total of what happened.

And sav obviously suffers from selective memory. There was an on track battle between Peugeot who had the faster car that could only manage 11 laps on a tankfull of fuel, and Audi who made 13 laps between stops. There was a sudden realisation in the French team very early in the race that they were going to have to use all of their extra speed to make up for at least 2 extra stops and defeat the canny Germans. What appeared to be a large gap wasn't, and sports car enthusiasts appreciated this. I will never forget Anthony Davidson getting a full tank slapper on the go on the straight when confronted by a pair of Audis deliberately using all of the track to prevent him from unlapping himself. He took to the side of the circuit to get past both of them in 1 go.

And to suggest that the ACO "shorten" long distance sports car races, well, words just fail me.

Having said all that I wonder why I waste my precious time defending my sport. I love it and that's all that matters at the end of the day.
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Cornish Pirate 7
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:39 pm

[quote="willyj"]
Laker wrote:


Having said all that I wonder why I waste my precious time defending my sport. I love it and that's all that matters at the end of the day.
ten To me sportscar racing and in particular the 24 HOURS of LE MANS is what motor sport is all about !! The is no finer race than the 24 hours ! when unlike f1 which has become very boring to watch ! with LE MANS there are some many different factors to in and to it the winner is not known till the chequered flag ! LONG LIVE LE MANS
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MotorracingP
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:55 pm

Laker wrote:

As I stated, I understand the appeal. It's obviously a fantastic spectacle and the technological side is mind-blowing - getting a car to go for 24 hours is a challenge in itself, let alone getting it to do that at racing speeds. And I can see why endurance racing is popular on the whole too, it just doesn't appeal to me at all. I'm sad to say the result on Sunday does nothing to enhance my desire to watch more of next year's race.

Well i understand, most people are use to F1 and 1hour and half races. so it's quite hard to find the appeal of longer races....If you look at the corvette/risi battle. the risi had a gearbox problem...because they were battling hard for many hours.

If you don't have the desire to watch le mans next year even though there is a rule change, that is surprising to me. Le mans is le mans.....Watch truth in 24 about Audi it will show you about great and a great race......
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:48 pm

This is cooooooooooooooooooollllllllllllllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Laker
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:13 am

willyj wrote:
Laker wrote:
Ok I'm officially the most unimpressed person ever. The nearest car to the leading Audi was 29 laps back. That's not a race, that's a procession..... Great cars, amazing spectacle but I can't see how anyone can call that exciting. Sorry guys.

You don't like sports car racing. That's fine, I respect that. But how dare you quote inaccurate and spurious facts about the end result of a race that lasted for a whole day as if that is the sum total of what happened.

Having said all that I wonder why I waste my precious time defending my sport. I love it and that's all that matters at the end of the day.
To be fair, the facts I quoted were accurate and not spurious at all. Maybe they did not tell the whole story of the race but that's another adjective entirely. Wink

I apologise if I have offended anyone. I've just seen a few members posting very contradictory messages about F1 being processional and boring for long periods where it also seems clear that this was the case for large parts of Le Mans. But you must understand, I'm not one who wants overtaking every two minutes and I do have more will-power than most F1 fans to watch motorsport which is not packed with overtaking every other lap.

I respect Le Mans, and Endurance racing on the whole, for what it is and my comments were made more in response to one or two posts in the F1 forum recently.

Peace. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:49 am

Quote :
And sav obviously suffers from selective memory. There was an on track battle between Peugeot who had the faster car that could only manage 11 laps on a tankfull of fuel, and Audi who made 13 laps between stops. There was a sudden realisation in the French team very early in the race that they were going to have to use all of their extra speed to make up for at least 2 extra stops and defeat the canny Germans. What appeared to be a large gap wasn't, and sports car enthusiasts appreciated this. I will never forget Anthony Davidson getting a full tank slapper on the go on the straight when confronted by a pair of Audis deliberately using all of the track to prevent him from unlapping himself. He took to the side of the circuit to get past both of them in 1 go.

I did indeed miss that part, but ultimately in the end the on-track battle resulted in not much. As all factory Peugeot's retired. That was an exciting moment, but the specific battle was not for position - if it was position it would have been far more exciting imo as there would be a battle for a change in position. Not merely a on-track battle for what might occur in the future. Another battle was when Mcnish tried to pass a Peugeot down the Mulsanne straight on lap 1, but apart from all of this and the brief GT2 battle - I cannot remember much other overtaking or battling that was memorable. In 24 hours, this is why the actual on-track product was stale. Of course it was unpredictable with all the cars dropping out - but that doesn't contribute to the on-track product for me. And the general lack of competitiveness between cars in LMP1, LMP2 and GT1 also contributes to the stale racing on a whole - the gaps between cars in these classes is colossal - so its no surprise that they all get spread out so much.

I will always watch Le Mans and respect for the immense challenge involved, and the track layout is fabulous - but for me there are issues with the on-track product. I haven't discarded the race, I've said the good and bad points in this post and my previous post.

Quote :
And to suggest that the ACO "shorten" long distance sports car races, well, words just fail me.

There is no regulation that I am aware of that says that seperate European ACO-sanctioned events have to be long distance (and 'long distance' means different things to different people). Please excuse me if there is. Unless you think that I think that Le Mans should be shortened, which is not what I mean. Of course the Le Mans 24 hours should always be a 24 hour race, that is the essence of the race. But, the fact remains that LMS is a separate series, the races could be shorter to make them more appealing to more people. The ALMS has become an extremely successful series with the majority of races that are under three hours - that challenges the opinion that all Le Mans events must go on for six hours. To automatically assume that all Le Mans events have to be long distance (i.e. six hours) is rather baffling if a model in another country with exactly the same cars has been a success. Perhaps this is something that the ACO needs to research, whether motor racing fans do actually demand that LMS races do last for six hours or more or not.

A more flexible approach, with some races that last three hours, some 2 hour 30 minutes, six hours, eight hours etc could be successful for the ACO if the shorter races are shown on TV more, demanding less TV time to be shown live and if more viewers would be prepared to watch shorter races. And of course, ALMS teams have been extremely successful in Le Mans - so the shorter races are clearly not a hindrance to them in preparing for the big race in June. Because, the longer distance races like Sebring allow for long distance preparation.

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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:44 am

As I really can't be bothered to read through 31 pages about the 24 hour race, Laughing Am sorry if this has already been asked or answered but, Does anybody know how the camerman is after being knocked over in the pitlane by the Audi and then pretty much being left on the floor like a bit of scrap.

From what i've read, The Audi mechanics didn't even bother with the guy until after the pitstop. If that's true, it's quite shocking to be honest.
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:14 pm

broken leg i believe

Endurance racing takes a different path to short racing. In WTCC it's a 20 minute race and i expect cars overtaking at every corner and lots of door banging.

Endurance racing is about car preservation and gaining an advantage over several hours. There i plenty of overtaking (for position) it's just far less obvious.

For me f1 is between the 2, short races but with the endurance pitstops and for me at least falls between the 2. No wheel banging like touring cars and time for an enduranace race to play out. Plus every overtake in an f1 race gets tv time. This dosen't happen in endurace racing. Having 55 cars make sit less obvious.
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:16 pm

Steven_85 wrote:


From what i've read, The Audi mechanics didn't even bother with the guy until after the pitstop. If that's true, it's quite shocking to be honest.

That what happens when you get asked to move out of the way and you don't move. Anyway he's apprently got a broken leg, broken collar bone and a borken shoulder.

Trust me he will move next time lol!

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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:45 pm

24 wrote:
Steven_85 wrote:


From what i've read, The Audi mechanics didn't even bother with the guy until after the pitstop. If that's true, it's quite shocking to be honest.

That what happens when you get asked to move out of the way and you don't move. Anyway he's apprently got a broken leg, broken collar bone and a borken shoulder.

Trust me he will move next time lol!

He will, He took a serious hit. knock the mirror the 8 Audi!!!
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:02 pm

I wasn't able to see any of the 24 hour race, can any one tell me please how Giancarlo Fisichella got on and where he finished please? I have looked around but have not found any full results as yet. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:11 pm

Jamie's Girl wrote:
I wasn't able to see any of the 24 hour race, can any one tell me please how Giancarlo Fisichella got on and where he finished please? I have looked around but have not found any full results as yet. Smile

Fisi in the 95 car was doing ok running 4/5 behind the corvettes and ferrari but he went off at indy and damage the front end and he end up down 6/7 but once the ferrari 82 and corvette retired he end up 4th

http://www.lemans.org/fr/courses/24h-chrono-en-direct-2010.html Full results
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:23 pm

Found video of the camera man getting. above angle



Holy S**t affraid That has got to hurt. The pit lane is dangerous place.
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:25 pm

wow, i didnt realise it was that bad from the tv shots, he went a long way
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:56 pm

you should watch what it was like in the late eightys. there was about 9,000 people in the pit lane.
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:40 pm

I no, crazyness now, perfectly fine back then Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:34 am

MotorracingP wrote:
Jamie's Girl wrote:
I wasn't able to see any of the 24 hour race, can any one tell me please how Giancarlo Fisichella got on and where he finished please? I have looked around but have not found any full results as yet. Smile

Fisi in the 95 car was doing ok running 4/5 behind the corvettes and ferrari but he went off at indy and damage the front end and he end up down 6/7 but once the ferrari 82 and corvette retired he end up 4th

http://www.lemans.org/fr/courses/24h-chrono-en-direct-2010.html Full results

Thankyou so very much for the info about Giancarlo it is great that he did so well in that weekend. Should be going to Silverstone in Sept to see him race and hope to meet him if possible. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:25 am

MotorracingP wrote:
Jamie's Girl wrote:
I wasn't able to see any of the 24 hour race, can any one tell me please how Giancarlo Fisichella got on and where he finished please? I have looked around but have not found any full results as yet. Smile

Fisi in the 95 car was doing ok running 4/5 behind the corvettes and ferrari but he went off at indy and damage the front end and he end up down 6/7 but once the ferrari 82 and corvette retired he end up 4th

http://www.lemans.org/fr/courses/24h-chrono-en-direct-2010.html Full results

"Went off"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He scared a family of bears in the woods half to death
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:27 am

MotorracingP wrote:
Found video of the camera man getting. above angle



Holy S**t affraid That has got to hurt. The pit lane is dangerous place.

Woah. affraid

Would he have been better off if that official didn't coax him away from the front of the 7 Audi?
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:50 am

The guy who is with him should of told it was coming.... i think that is what he is there.
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:44 pm

Team Joest LE MANS facts
http://www.joest-racing.de/web/news/news.php?id=544&sprache=e
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:03 am

Holy Shit!

That is mega footage. One of the major incidents and that guy caught it affraid

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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:42 am

I don't have much sympathy with that photographer, he is repeatedly warned by the other gentleman not to wander any further but completely ignores the warning. We'll that taught him a lesson - he won't ignore instructions next time.

Another thing though, the diesel cars are so quiet that he must have not even heard it coming. At least with a big gurgling petrol motor, you may be able to hear it coming towards you. Still silly though.

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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010   Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:28 am

GT2 classification on hold – top 2 under investigation

Quote :
Shortly after the finish of the 78th Le Mans 24 Hours it became clear that the battle in the LM GT2 category had ended on track, but was likely to go ahead beyond Le Mans. Today the Automobile Club de l’Ouest informed the teams that the classification is indeed not final.

The first placed number 77 Team Felbermayr Proton Porsche 997 GT3 RSR (Marc Lieb, Richard Lietz and Wolf Henzler) and the #89 Hankook Team Farnbacher Ferrari F430 GT2 (Dominik Farnbacher, Allan Simonsen and Leh Keen) did not immediately clear scrutineering at Le Mans and this afternoon the technical delegate of the ACO, Daniel Perdrix confirmed that the engines on both cars will be undergoing further checks.

It is expected that the results of these inspections will be announced in early July. As a result the full LM GT2 classification is now suspended, as are the general classification and the Michelin Green X Challenge classification from the first LM GT2 car.

If the ACO finds nothing irregular on the two cars the results will stay as they are. Should they be excluded it would promote the BMS Scuderia Italia Porsche 997 GT3 RSR to first place, with AF Corse and IMSA Performance Matmut taking second and third.

To be continued… http://www.planetlemans.com/2010/06/18/gt2-classification-on-hold-%E2%80%93-top-2-under-investigation/

Willyj will like if they got thrown out......hmmm not good way to end a great race.
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