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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:47 am

i haven't been following it either fell asleep bloody f1.
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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:25 am

cerca_trova wrote:
grand am cut the rev limit, increased the ride height and took away a gear (ie 6 spped down to 5 speed) to stop penske winning.

gp2 is a single make series, all the cars are the same except for setup and have a spec tyre as well.

btcc is fairly open except the tyres and does produce close racing at the front. The time gap between first and last at silverstone was 2 second, on a 1 minute lap around the grand prix circuit would be more like double that. Croft is nearly 3 seconds a lap.

As for Formula 1, and yes lets bring that in here, spec tyres which equalize preformance, rev limites which equalize preformance, all cars must have 2.4 litre v8's which guess what equalize preformance.

Do I need to go on?

The LMS series and thus le mans is the only truely open motorsport, a brawn may look different to a renault but only just. Lets do the same for the le mans series

Aston Martin Lola Closed top coupe, Pescarolo open top
Aston Martin Lola 6 litre V12, Pescarolo 5.5 litre v8 judd

etc
etc
etc

yur sech series just isn't as interesting or as varied

You previously stated that GP2 should become F1, now you state that GP2 is too spec series for you? At least be consistent. Grand-Am and BTCC feature close compeition which is what I demand from a racing series, both series are exciting, close and have a lot of overtaking. And that is what especially touring cars should have.

Yet again, you've made up your mind about F1 and you really are incorrect. F1 is not a spec series, teams have to design their own chassis, aerodynamics, suspension systems etc etc. What your doing is just pointlessly twisting the actual meaning of a spec series, a spec series features completely identical cars. Each F1 car has different characteristics and different areas of strength and weakness, the marvellous aspect of F1 is that all the cars are different - but the compeition is so close. This is exactly how motor racing should be, sorry - but cars laps and laps apart does not appeal to me - like todays LMS result shows. You completely dislike F1 so you decide to brand it a spec series.

Yes LMS is open, but does that make the show any better? Running different engine configurations etc does not increase the compeition at all, in fact it does the opposite. Motor racing should be a closely fought contest and that is exactly what you get with F1 with cars extremely close to each other. Open motorsport means nothing if the actual compeition is not close. Who benefits? The public? Nope, just because they run different configurations of car that doesn't make it any more useful for the public. Openess seems to be your selling point but it actually makes the spectacle of close compeition very poor.

What is interesting and varied is exciting, is close compeition where tiny tenths of a second make the difference and cars pushing like crazy to beat other with the smallest margins involved. Having complete technical freedom isn't interesting at all really, I mean which great innovation out of this openess has come out of these marvellous rules? Shit all is the answer, so its not really much of a plus point. F1 is the most intensively developed motorsport probably in the world with all the new parts that arrive at each race, oh but of course you must ignore that.

And thats why LMS has empty grandstands, gets crap coverage and is watched by barley anybody - because the actual product is usually boring and drags on for far too long. Oh but no, LMS has complete technical freedom - that'll save the series! Wink Laughing

ALMS owns LMS, its where all the imporant and big LMP1 and GT2 teams are. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:04 am

Sav 1 wrote:


And thats why LMS has empty grandstands, gets crap coverage and is watched by barley anybody - because the actual product is usually boring and drags on for far too long. Oh but no, LMS has complete technical freedom - that'll save the series! Wink Laughing

ALMS owns LMS, its where all the imporant and big LMP1 and GT2 teams are. Wink

ALMS is for mostly American teams....you based in europe, your going to shift everything over to America so thats everything parts and you got to get people to move there...not easy even moving people around USA is not easy either. To race in series even though there is a series in europe...

list the teams in the ALMS

Highcroft- Connecticut, USA
Flying lizard- California, USA
De Ferran Motorsports Brownsburg, Indiana.
Dyson Racing, Poughkeepsie, NY, USA

http://www.americanlemans.com/index_paddock.php?xFile=/team_listp.php

most of them are in the USA only one team did full move UK to USA than was Drayson Racing he was on Year hoilday took the kids out of school etc and did full season of ALMS......
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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:07 pm

That was a great race, I don't care what anybody says. Some proper scraps going on. I don't know what Mansell's lap times were, but after his car problems were fixed he looked quick.
£25 well spent I reckon.
Bloody cold though, wasn't dressed for the occaission after all that sun on Saturday I thought we'd be in for more of the same.
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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:37 pm

i watch all motorsport from the top le mans to the bottom carting and everything in between including f1.

I have seen great f1 races, amazing things happen. In the late 80's mansell turing up the turbo boost on his williams overtaking piquet down the hanger straight.

Prost and senna whell to wheel and crash out of suscesive japanesse grand prix's

i've seen alonso overtake Schumacher around the outside at 130R and much much more.

these were great and cars were completely different, no spec anything.



either f1 should be open (tyre's no engine limits) nothing. they give a height, weith, length and weight and go do what you want or it might as well be gp1 with gp2 cars all the same. Either way would produce great racing, what there is now dosen't.
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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:31 am

I watched the first hour of that race last night, after I sky* it on Sunday. I enjoyed the hour or so what was shown on Eurosport more then every F1 race put together this season.

Cerca is completely right. The F1 cars need to be different.

I am not as big as a fan of endurance racing compared to some on here ( You know who you's are) Laughing but I enjoy it a lot more then F1 this present time.
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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:13 am

Steven_85 wrote:
I watched the first hour of that race last night, after I sky* it on Sunday. I enjoyed the hour or so what was shown on Eurosport more then every F1 race put together this season.

Cerca is completely right. The F1 cars need to be different.

I am not as big as a fan of endurance racing compared to some on here ( You know who you's are) Laughing but I enjoy it a lot more then F1 this present time.

Thats one hour out of almost six, the rest was dreadfully boring. So only a tiny part of the race was actually interesting. F1 cars are different, just because they run to the same regulations does not mean they are the same. Different

The 'racing' in LMS is also rather artificial. Essentially, GT2 cars get in the way of LMP1 cars that create cars to overtake in traffic. Now that isn't a great way of racing in my opinion. Its like putting a Formula Ford, an F3 car a GP2 and an F1 car all on track at the same time - yes they may overtake each other the ultimate question is: is that overtaking actually derrived from the cars or is it derrived from traffic? If the latter is the case, that is not actually particularly fruitful to watch. Which is one of the reasons why I would like to see just two classes of car to close things up. The very fact that almost every car from last weekend's race finished on different laps tells you a lot.

Overtaking is nice when it happens, but what makes motor racing particularly interesting is close compeition - which F1 now has in spades. Sure, the rules are more restrictive than in previous seasons but each car is still inherently different in the way that they operate. The current way of dealing with the rules is the right one. Small privateers like Force India can now suceed in F1 because they can have access to good engines and gearboxes at lower prices, and in these tough economic times it is essential that F1 does this so privateers can start with a good base package. After all, when the rules were unrestrictive for example in 2004, privateers apart from Williams to some extent never got a look in - the privateers badly struggled. However now that key components have become cheaper and more accessible, they are successful. In a perfect world, every car in F1 would be completely different, different engine configuration, tyres etc. However, we don't live in a perfect world - we live in a world where the wider economy is in turmoil and F1 needs to adapt to that. The Force India performs completely differentley to the Mclaren for example because it is different, and that is why F1 cars are so intensively developed over a season - so this keeps with the spirit of technical development. To give you an example of how F1 cars evolve and therefore change through a season, at the start of the F1 season the Mclaren car was at the bottom of the time sheets and was about 8 tenths of the ultimate pace, now if F1 was so spec and similar there would be no way possible that Mclaren could fight back and claw that time back. But through intensive development they were scoring points and winning once again in Hungary. That just shows you how different F1 cars are if so much time can be found.

The Red Bull and Brawn both are very different cars that have different traits, strenths and weaknesses - there is not much spec about either car. Both designers interpretated the regulations very differently and that resulted in the cars being very different in the way that they operate. Anybody who has an interest in F1 will know this.

The balance between the accessiblity of decent parts, lower costs and technical development is something that can never be achieved perfectly - but at the moment F1 is going the right away about it. On the one hand, you can have a grid of 26 cars (next year) with different chassis's, suspension, aerodynamics, development routes etc but with mostly similar gearboxes and engines. Or you can have more open rules with different engines, tyres, unrestrictive aerodynamics but about 6 cars on the grid because its too expensive. F1 will always be expensive, but costs exploding even further is hardly sensible either.

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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:51 am

I love endurance and F1 pretty much all racing. To be honest F1 this season has been good from about Silverstone, i mean button won pretty much all races and that was crap, People i talked to didn't really like it. But F1 will improve i mean next year i think will be a good year most teams should be up there with chance to win Mclaren are coming back Ferrari etc...

LMS is for Hardcore fans to be honest, True sportscar fans but everyone seems to like most of the races. I mean its like You could watch the first hour or 2 and do whatever like gardening and have radio le mans on(if you like) or go and watch BTCC race its great for that....etc etc
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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:57 am

It is very strange.

I get Sav's point about LMS i feel the same way about Bikes.. But i am slowly getting there.

But then Le Mans is the same cars racing. I know Le Mans is totally different but in a strange way it is not. I know this does not make sense but i never do lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:23 am

vingt quatre - 24 wrote:
It is very strange.

I get Sav's point about LMS i feel the same way about Bikes.. But i am slowly getting there.

But then Le Mans is the same cars racing. I know Le Mans is totally different but in a strange way it is not. I know this does not make sense but i never do lol!

If thats an accurate test then I'll love LMS within a year! Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Previously I had no interest whatsoever in bikes but now watch Moto GP on a regular basis.

Le Mans for me is just special, the track, the cars and the teams that come over from America - and its full of spectators do its popular. Sadly, many of the big teams don't race in LMS and the tracks are no where near as special as actual Le Mans. It is defeintely definitely the same format and same sort of cars your right, but the amount of attention that Le Mans recieves from so many is great. Like the factor Corvette's coming over, Audi never fail to be there and now Peugrot don't either. And of course, the LMS has very few spectators trackside.

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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:38 pm

Sav 1 wrote:


If thats an accurate test then I'll love LMS within a year! Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Previously I had no interest whatsoever in bikes but now watch Moto GP on a regular basis.

I know what you mean on that m8

Sav 1 wrote:


Le Mans for me is just special, the track, the cars and the teams that come over from America - and its full of spectators do its popular. Sadly, many of the big teams don't race in LMS and the tracks are no where near as special as actual Le Mans. It is defeintely definitely the same format and same sort of cars your right, but the amount of attention that Le Mans recieves from so many is great. Like the factor Corvette's coming over, Audi never fail to be there and now Peugrot don't either. And of course, the LMS has very few spectators trackside.

As you say it is good that the big boys are at Le Mans and as you say it is all good with Covergae. How much coverage was there for LMS? Was it an hour and a half at the start and an hour at the finish?

Here's hoping that Le Mans does not go the same way.

I think the ACO do need to allow Porshce to come in as a works team, why will they not allow an LMP2 car win? FFS why apply for an LMP2 entry.

In the early 90's GT cars were beating the proto's so why not now?

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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:41 pm

MotorracingP wrote:

LMS is for Hardcore fans to be honest
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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:43 pm

I shall probably enjoy my next LMS race more than Silverstone last year, now that I know about the light system on the sides of the cars :-)

They should do that in F1 too... along with a second set of lights denoting how many pitstops each car has made... would make it much easier to follow the race.

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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:00 am

Sav 1 wrote:

The 'racing' in LMS is also rather artificial. Essentially, GT2 cars get in the way of LMP1 cars that create cars to overtake in traffic. Now that isn't a great way of racing in my opinion. Its like putting a Formula Ford, an F3 car a GP2 and an F1 car all on track at the same time - yes they may overtake each other the ultimate question is: is that overtaking actually derrived from the cars or is it derrived from traffic? If the latter is the case, that is not actually particularly fruitful to watch. Which is one of the reasons why I would like to see just two classes of car to close things up. The very fact that almost every car from last weekend's race finished on different laps tells you a lot.

Yes a lot of overtaking is derived from the traffic but you are missing the point of sports car racing entirely, as it far from being artificial. Unlike F1 where a blue flag means fuck right off out of the way, the flag purely warns of a faster car behind and you are not to purposefully block it. However the racing line is still yours and it is up to the faster car to make his way safely past you.

Now take the situation were there is a battle going on for position. Because of the length of the race, pit stops, srtategy etc. there may be a 10, 20 or 30 seconds gap between the cars having the scrap, but they are in a fight nonetheless. The drivers know that there is no way that they can afford to be delayed by traffic, yet they also know that the racing line belongs to the slower cars they need to get past on the hurry up. Circumspection is therefore thrown out of the window and some really committed moves are made, late dives up the inside, driving off line on either side, locked brakes etc. Spectacular stuff.

Further the gap between the cars at the chequered flag does not remove the excitement until the final few laps as it is not known what strategies have been employed and whether someone's tyres are going to last or if they are going to need to do a splash and dash fuel stop with 10 minutes still to go.

How many cars in a grand Prix? Twenty odd? Over forty cars turned up at Silverstone, 19 different manufacturers were represented. There were ninety drivers, Grand Prix stars and ex-world champions taking on or sharing cars with amateurs. Nearly six hours of non stop action for 25 quid, with the freedom to roam where you liked without the restriction of people hogging their place on the banking from 6 o'clock in the morning, free grand stands and drivers out in the paddock signing autographs.

I was lucky enough to be at Chapel when the GT1 Aston was up to overtake the GT2 version whilst under attack from an LMP2 Mazda. The Oreca was looking for a way past all 3. The Drayson Aston came off worst. Priceless.



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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:06 am

i will always watch an LMS over an F1 race if i can end of.
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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:52 am

Seperate

Quote :
Yes a lot of overtaking is derived from the traffic but you are missing the point of sports car racing entirely, as it far from being artificial. Unlike F1 where a blue flag means fuck right off out of the way, the flag purely warns of a faster car behind and you are not to purposefully block it. However the racing line is still yours and it is up to the faster car to make his way safely past you.

Firstly, I do not miss the point of sports car racing Ė I miss the point of LMS. Those are two very different things, I have often stated how I enjoy watching other forms of sports car racing and I genuinely do such as Grand-Am and ALMS. So secondly, I would appreciate it if you didnít make false claims about what my likes and dislikes are. We are talking about LMS specifically and bringing the whole question of sports car racing into the matter is not helpful because sports car racing varies considerably around the world.

Thirdly, you say that I am missing the point of LMS. Then go onto say that faster cars have to move off line to pass slower cars. But that exactly what Iím disputing, battles between two cars in the same category are ruined because a mobile chicane gets in the way. So therefore there is a counter argument for this because the way that LMS works is detracting from us seeing genuine racing between same classes of cars. Itís a rather sorry way to create overtaking when the slowest cars are holding up the faster cars. At least if there is a battle in F1, the slower guys are told to get right out of the way so that they do not prevent the actual leaders from battling Ė that is pure natural Ďracingí without any mobile chicanes getting in the way. To compare, it would be like an F3 car in a Grand Prix holding up the leaders Ė the F3 car is the mobile chicane and is detracting from the actual show. If you want a game of dodgems and slower drivers holding up faster cars, you have the M25 motorway for that. What you describe is not appealing on any grounds.

Quote :
Now take the situation were there is a battle going on for position. Because of the length of the race, pit stops, srtategy etc. there may be a 10, 20 or 30 seconds gap between the cars having the scrap, but they are in a fight nonetheless. The drivers know that there is no way that they can afford to be delayed by traffic, yet they also know that the racing line belongs to the slower cars they need to get past on the hurry up. Circumspection is therefore thrown out of the window and some really committed moves are made, late dives up the inside, driving off line on either side, locked brakes etc. Spectacular stuff.

Again, the sole reason why they are having a scrap is because of the massive variations in speeds which makes passing hard. What you describe is marvellous in theory, but that rarely ever happens Ė Iíve watched many LMS races, attended a race and paid close attention and what you describe simply never occurs. Because the cars get so spread out, which is partially due to traffic everybody is so far away from each other that it makes the end dull as ditchwater. The P1 class alone is separated by around 8 seconds Ė so itís a done deal basically three hours in.

Quote :
Further the gap between the cars at the chequered flag does not remove the excitement until the final few laps as it is not known what strategies have been employed and whether someone's tyres are going to last or if they are going to need to do a splash and dash fuel stop with 10 minutes still to go.

Sadly again, that sounds nice in theory Ė but it rarely happens. And it doesnít sound appealing either, that the strategy game goes on for almost sixth hours itís no wonder that the races are so dull. Of course big gaps at the chequered flag remove the excitement. Last weekend nearly every car finished on a different lap and this happens on a regular basis, so I donít see how finishes are remotely interesting. From this evidence, it doesnít take a genius to realise that the whole field is deeply spread out in the end. Unless of course a mobile chicane gets in the way.

Quote :
How many cars in a grand Prix? Twenty odd? Over forty cars turned up at Silverstone, 19 different manufacturers were represented. There were ninety drivers, Grand Prix stars and ex-world champions taking on or sharing cars with amateurs.

I do like that aspect, but then that just spreads out the cars even further. And what innovations or unique designs have occured from this great variety in cars? Shit all is the answer, F1 has pioneered many influential innovations Ė even this year with the double diffuser that LMS can only dream off.

Quote :
I was lucky enough to be at Chapel when the GT1 Aston was up to overtake the GT2 version whilst under attack from an LMP2 Mazda. The Oreca was looking for a way past all 3. The Drayson Aston came off worst. Priceless.

Again, more mobile chicane-derived overtaking. Personally that isn't something you should be proud off, if the Oreca had managed to pass the P2 Mazda and GT1 Aston by genuine racing and no slower cars in the way - then that would have been natural and pure racing which is what motor racing should be about. The first hour of last Sunday's race was very entertaining, but that only happened because of traffic intervening. The way overtaking actually occurs is essential, not the fact that overtaking merely happens.

To try and limit the amount of moves pulled off by overtaking, I would get rid of LMP2 and GT1 and just have two classes of car. This way, everybody would not lose such large amounts of time in traffic and we may even see head-to-head racing without so much mobile-chicane derived overtaking and people would see pure racing between like-for-like cars without other factors influencing the battles.

At least I can safely say I have attended a modern day F1 race and an LMS race, so can make more informed decisions on the question of overtaking, close competition and the general excitement of both series. Seeing and hearing a F1 modern car being hustled around is one life's great experiences and will probably blow you away. Especially with the level of compeition now.

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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:29 pm

Sav 1 wrote:
Firstly, I do not miss the point of sports car racing Ė I miss the point of LMS.
LMS IS sports car racing.

Sav 1 wrote:
Thirdly, you say that I am missing the point of LMS. Then go onto say that faster cars have to move off line to pass slower cars. But that exactly what Iím disputing, battles between two cars in the same category are ruined because a mobile chicane gets in the way.
The two cars racing each other have to pass the same slower cars under equal conditions and the same rules. There is a level playing field and the enthusiast gets an opportunity to appreciate and compare drivers commitment and style.
Sav 1 wrote:
Iíve watched many LMS races, attended a race and paid close attention
Oh really?
Sav 1 wrote:
and what you describe simply never occurs.
..............suggests you have not.
Sav 1 wrote:
The P1 class alone is separated by around 8 seconds
In long distance racing 8 seconds is close racing. No more than the gap that can separate the finishers of your average Grand Prix sprint, which, it appears, is fixed anyway (LOL)
Sav 1 wrote:
Sadly again, that sounds nice in theory Ė but it rarely happens.
The point is that it can happen - nobody knows until it is over.
Sav 1 wrote:
And it doesnít sound appealing either,
It is to me
Sav 1 wrote:
that the strategy game goes on for almost sixth hours itís no wonder that the races are so dull.
The strategy game is the whole point.
Sav 1 wrote:
Of course big gaps at the chequered flag remove the excitement. Last weekend nearly every car finished on a different lap and this happens on a regular basis, so I donít see how finishes are remotely interesting.
Of course you don't, you don't like LMS and don't understand the strategy game and the possibilities it throws up.
Sav 1 wrote:
I do like that aspect,
cheers
Sav 1 wrote:
And what innovations or unique designs have occured from this great variety in cars?
Diesel performance, fuel technology, tyre technology, brakes, lightweight air conditioning systems.
Sav 1 wrote:
Again, more mobile chicane-derived overtaking. Personally that isn't something you should be proud off, if the Oreca had managed to pass the P2 Mazda and GT1 Aston by genuine racing and no slower cars in the way - then that would have been natural and pure racing which is what motor racing should be about.
In LMS, by the very nature of this form of racing, traffic is normal and therefore, by definition, natural.
Sav 1 wrote:
The way overtaking actually occurs is essential, not the fact that overtaking merely happens.
Couldn't agree more, see my point above about commitment and style.
Sav 1 wrote:
To try and limit the amount of moves pulled off by overtaking, I would get rid of LMP2 and GT1 and just have two classes of car.
And thereby wreck a series that you state you don't like and quite clearly don't understand.
Sav 1 wrote:
At least I can safely say I have attended a modern day F1 race and an LMS race, so can make more informed decisions on the question of overtaking, close competition and the general excitement of both series. Seeing and hearing a F1 modern car being hustled around is one life's great experiences and will probably blow you away. Especially with the level of compeition now.
scratch Just one of each?????????????????? How can your opinion possibly be informed?
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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:31 pm

f1's a bit like a magic trick, for those you see the trick and like they stay.

For those who can see how the tricks done it's boring second time around and we move on.
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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:12 pm

I think the criticism of LMS is unjustified... to say that it is bad and F1 is good is rather akin, imho, to comparing a 5-day Test Match to 20:20 cricket.

They appeal to different people. Some like both, others neither.

I really enjoy watching the 24 Heures Du Mans every year, and that's 24 hours of racing. I also enjoy watching the TT Races and MotoGP or similar equally...


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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:16 pm

seanmiller wrote:
I think the criticism of LMS is unjustified... to say that it is bad and F1 is good is rather akin, imho, to comparing a 5-day Test Match to 20:20 cricket.

They appeal to different people. Some like both, others neither. Sean
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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:40 am

very good point sean

and maybe i am to harsh on f1, the qualifing sessions are very good.
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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:23 am

Quote :
LMS IS sports car racing.

So what? You said I miss the point of sports car racing - but LMS is a specific series and thatís what I am criticising. Its like me saying you don't understand F1 therefore don't understand single seater races on a whole - then turning around and saying: ĎF1 IS single seater racingí as a response. What an illogical thing to say, we are talking about specific series.

Next time, say I don't understand LMS.

Quote :
..............suggests you have not.

Lol, it rarely ever happens and waiting for around three hours is crap. And how many people turn up to LMS races? Yeah, thatís right - its empty. How popular! What you describe is totally different in my eyes.

Quote :
In long distance racing 8 seconds is close racing. No more than the gap that can separate the finishers of your average Grand Prix sprint, which, it appears, is fixed anyway (LOL)

No, in qualifying they are seperated by around 8 seconds. Add that up in a race and the result is a boring zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz race. In F1 qualifying the cars are seperated by 1.5 seconds.

Quote :
The point is that it can happen - nobody knows until it is over.

So thats worth waiting about four hours for in an empty track.

Quote :
Diesel performance, fuel technology, tyre technology, brakes, lightweight air conditioning systems.

Incorrect, diesel technology has not been pioneered by LMS. The first diesel sportscar was in ALMS at Sebring. And the first diesel car to win a major race was a BMW 320d in the Nurgurbring 24 hours ten years ago. And when you say brakes, fuel tech and tyre tech - thats not awfully specific.

Quote :
And thereby wreck a series that you state you don't like and quite clearly don't understand.

I understand it just fine, and its boring with few spectators. The Group C era didn't have four classes and that is considered by many the finest era of sportscar racing - although I cannot personally vouch for that.

Quote :
Just one of each?????????????????? How can your opinion possibly be informed?[quote/]

Lol you only follow with interest FIA GT, LMS and classic racing. Yours is not informed.

We are talking about LMS and F1 aren't we? If we are talking generally. I watch and follow with interest: F1, endurance racing (including Le Mans itself, ALMS, Grand Am and FIA GT), GP2, NASCAR, IndyCar, WTCC,, Moto GP, BTCC and a whole host more. So therefore my opinion is more informed than yours, what do you follow?
I can guess its basically LMS, FIA GT and classic car racing - so thatís a tiny minority compared to what I follow. Perhaps its best you stick to only LMS, FIA GT and classic racing Ė basically what your interested in.

I have attended: An F1 race, A1GP race (which had classic racing in it), an FIA GT race, various BTCC races, a DTM race, an LMS race, a Britcar race and a British F3 race. Thatís more varied than what you watch. So therefore I know what is interesting and what is not because I actually take an interest in almost all four wheeled racing. Where as you just stick to FIA GT, LMS and classic racing. Also, a number of your statements compare LMS to F1 as well Ė so your guilty of that as well.

I do enjoy debating with you though, having a reasonable debate from two different ends of the spectrum is better than trading personal insults. Our opinions are entirely subjective and I donít think that I hold the correct argument.

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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:44 am

Sav 1 wrote:

LMS, FIA GT and classic racing Ė basically what your interested in.

I do enjoy debating with you though, having a reasonable debate from two different ends of the spectrum is better than trading personal insults. Our opinions are entirely subjective and I donít think that I hold the correct argument.

My interests have been developed over 35 years of watching (20 years as a Marshal) all forms of four wheel motorsport. My fovourites are as you have listed have come out of my own personal experience. I do not dislike Formula 1, or any single seaters, just prefer sports cars and long distance stuff and have tried to explain why. I am not trying to persuade you that LMS is better, but I am trying to explain why it is my preference, that's all.
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PostSubject: Re: Mansell to race at Silverstone 1000km   Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:39 am

Cool, I respect that. Smile

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