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PostSubject: LE MANS 2010 rules   Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:27 am

Basic 2010 Le Mans rules confirmed




The ACO has confirmed the class structure and basic regulations for the Le Mans 24 Hours for the next two years.

As previously planned, the top LMP1 cars will be further slowed with reduced capacity engines. Normally-aspirated petrol engines will now be limited to 3.4-litres, down from 6-litres, diesel units to 3.4-litre (from 5.5-litres), and turbocharged petrol to 2-litres (from 4-litres). Downforce levels will also be reduced.

LMP2 cars will run using GT2 engines or more production-based units, while some common parts will be introduced to cut costs. Telemetry will also be banned.

The ACO confirmed that it is open to running the latest generation FIA GT1 regulations, meaning that this year's race will be the last for the likes of the Chevrolet Corvette C.6R and Aston Martin DBR9.

The GT2 regulations will also follow the FIA GT Championship and will introduce the new GT2 cars alongside the existing machines, such as the Ferrari 430 and Porsche 911 RSR. Measures will be taken to equalise the two types of car within GT2.
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:28 am

So basically, the cars will be getting slower? Oh dear...

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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:37 am

speed isn't everything, the racing is.
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:43 am

Keeps costs down and makes it safer.
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:15 am

I like the GT1 idea, Having Ford GT and Nissan GT-R can not be a bad thing

But looking at FIA GT series it shows it slower than the current FIA GT cars
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:20 am

willyj wrote:
Keeps costs down and makes it safer.

Not really, the car makers will just develop super duper engines from those rules. As for safer, well there have been massive shunts over the years, without any major injuries due to advanced innovation and technologies - with stunning results. Slowing the cars down is just a lazy way of making things safer. Find new innovations instead.

The car makers will still spend the same, Audi and others will still spend millions on R&D - just with smaller engines. And Audi's engineers will just find ways of gaining time, I seriously doubt that budgets will be cut that significantly.

And I don't see how the racing will improve too, the big wigs will just end up spending their way to victory. Thats one of the things I like about Le Mans, the freedom to run the output levels you want.

Mark Cole just said that P1 cars will be restricted to 520 bhp. Oh dear, hardly credible - even GP2 cars have more. These LMP1 cars should be sensationally fast, some of the fastest machines in the world. All these restrictions - Evil or Very Mad .

And if you really want racing, watch BTCC - the ultimate racing.

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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:27 am

i think it is anb over reaction, for whatever reason the aco dediced the fast laps at le mans should be 3:30

and all p1 regs are to achieve this.

audi and peugeot do spend millions, but i'd bet it's less than a tenth of what most f1 teams soend.
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:33 am

Exactly, so why are costs such a problem then? I don't see a shortage of car makers expressing interest in Le Mans projects. P1 cars should be the deadly machines that are unbelievable in terms of overall speed, cornering speed and innovation.

I think it should stay as it is, considering how safe the cars are with about 700 bhp, the arguement for 'safety' isn't really valid. This is Le Mans, for heavens sake, we should be seeing screaming cars down the Mulsanne straight doing over 200 mph.

That ending clip on the Motors TV Le Mans programme, thats what is so appealing about Le Mans personally. The speeds are terrifying, but unlike in the olden days, the cars have the safety features to match.

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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:44 am

a crash at le mans in the old days was pretty teriffying.

doing over 245 mph down the mulsane straight, if you crashes it go nasty quickly. it's the fia's fault those chicanes are there. the last head bfore max.
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:12 am

Exactly, and modern safety standards mean that things have dramatically changed from that era. Grrr, the FIA really are annoying.

Hopefully the ACO do not press ahead with these plans for prototypes. I like the new GT1 class with the Nissan GT-R though.

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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:19 am

MotorracingP wrote:
I like the GT1 idea, Having Ford GT and Nissan GT-R can not be a bad thing

But looking at FIA GT series it shows it slower than the current FIA GT cars

the Ford GT & Nissan GT-R etc are way to slow for a track like Le mans ! Nissan took Skyline GTR's to Le mans before & they got laughed off the circuit Razz

i don't like all this dumbing down & as for GT2 engines in LMP2 cars they will just be a F430 with a LMP2 style body & i also DO NOT like the closed LMP1's Mad

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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:22 am

I don't like dumbing down either.

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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:08 pm

actually safety is a good reason, it's not the speed thats the problem, it's the releastive lack of speed of the gt2 cars, the close rating is so emence, the risk is a p1 car crashing into a gt2 car and that could be very nasty
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:36 pm

cerca_trova wrote:
actually safety is a good reason, it's not the speed thats the problem, it's the releastive lack of speed of the gt2 cars, the close rating is so emence, the risk is a p1 car crashing into a gt2 car and that could be very nasty
Also think of the marshals. If they see a car heading at them at 200mph they have a few more seconds to react than if it was doing 250.
The SRO rules for GT1 were specifically designed to bring costs down, which attracted Nissan into it in the first place. The current GT1 regs don't work with everybody out except Corvette who are on their way out.
The new rules will encourage the privateers, i.e Matech with the Ford GT and Reiter with Lamborghini. Nissan are ready to sell shed loads of GTRs and Aston Martin have just shovelled the V12 into the Vantage. I have high hopes for this category. I am even willing to lay a small wager on somebody building a Morgan to suit.
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:28 am

Slowing down the cars is lazy though, I mean they are hardly like the late 1980's - amazingly fast and boarderline completely dangerous.

Yes, the closing speeds are a big risk. But thats motorsport for you, it is a risk - and thats part of the attraction. All top catogeries have made conditions far safer for marshals and the cars are outstandingly safe, with new innovation and technologies. The Audi and Peugeot P1 cars impress me a lot,. their immense speed and safety standards. Instead of dumbing things down and making everything slower, the governing body should be concentrating on pioneering new safety break throughs - and eventually this will benefit road cars and the public. Just reducing speed is far too easy and lazy, the organisers have proven that you can have safe and fast cars - like now.

P1 cars are a bit like open wheel cars, they are purpose built, a bit pointless to average joe, but just spectacular in every way. Le Mans is not really about hardcore racing, and it shouldn't - BTCC should be. But then again, Le Mans is not completely Sleep like LMS is.

I like the GT category, really, GT should have as many branded sportscars as possible. I hope that an Audi R8 races in a GT class one day, I really like that car.

What I would say, is just keep everything the same.

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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:31 am

i may have been a bit to harsh before, i want to see more teams in LMP1 like Courage, Riley & Scott etc.

these are the rules i would make if i was in charge of LeMans;

the LMP1 cars would be allowed to be open or closed but the closed cars would have restrictors as they are more aero efficient to make it fairer,
as for engines something along the lines of 4L-V12, 5L-V10 & 6L-V8 the CC & BHP etc would be balanced out by component restriction,

LMP2 would be the same as LMP1 exempt the engines would be only 3L-V8 or 4L-V6.

GT1 would be stripped out production cars much like the GT1 cars now but with less restrictions, also bespoke cars would be allowed.

GT2 would be production based cars that would be lightly modified but all the manufactures, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martin, Chevrolet, Paganii etc would have the cars standardized through engine size or other restrictions so that the cars are much more equal, as i would want to encourage more gentlemen racers.


in all category's cost's would be kept down by limiting electronics, personnel, spare parts & tyre data would be sheared between teams using the same make of tyres in the same category , also component manufactures would be approached AP racing for example to supply a standard set of brakes to a number of teams at a lower cost basically buying in bul.

Smile

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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:44 am

the p1 cars need slowing down relative to the gt2's how you do that i'm not sure

it should be said, the rules from last year to this has cost the p1's 4 seconds, the aco was trying to slow them by 12 seconds.

IT should also be added that the ferrari f430 gt2 engine i9s the same as the one in the a1 gp car.
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:49 am

I like Big-Al's rules, generally. I would make LMP1 more free in terms of engine development, and make the GT cars a little faster. But really, this is a dangerous game that has been made a whole lot safer in recent years by new innovations, not sitting there and saying 'lets reduce speed'.

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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:52 am

yeah f1 drivers moan if you're are slower cars 3 seconds a lap slower, at le mans is over 40 seconds a lap affraid
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:04 am

the LMP1 should have more freedom but i do think that cost's need to be tempered to allow more teams to be able to take part, i would go for a practical solution though, i would go to Audi & Peugeot & other manufactures & ask for their thoughts on cutting cost's & having more freedom like ground effect or a KERS type system on the basis that (example) if a ground effect car is 20 sec's a lap faster the lap time will be rained in via BHP restricters or similar to balance it out but over the 24 hours it would be a advantage.

cerca_trova wrote:
yeah f1 drivers moan if you're are slower cars 3 seconds a lap slower, at le mans is over 40 seconds a lap affraid

i think that's the appeal & i like it Smile

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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:06 am

kers will be legal from sometime soon, at the moment someone could use it but the car would not be classifyed. the aco seem worryied about having another petrol diesel problem.
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:11 am

cerca_trova wrote:
yeah f1 drivers moan if you're are slower cars 3 seconds a lap slower, at le mans is over 40 seconds a lap affraid

Thats why I feel a tad sorry for GT2 drivers. A 908 coming flying past must make you feel like you want to be hitting 200 mph and blasting past GT2 cars. Obviously GT cars are still fast, but the P1 cars take 'fast' to a whole new level.

I do think that costs need to be controlled, but despite the tough economic situation, I see more and more car makers expressing interest in Le Mans. Therefore the organisers must be doing something right. In F1, you used to have
unbelievable costs, now they are trying to cut back. This is not really needed in Le Mans, if you look at the entrants. But yes, costs always must be controls - but I would avoid radical reforms.

If LMP1 cars start having more than 900 bhp then I'll become a complete fan. A KERS system is a good idea, and because the F1 system is a bit restrictive in terms of output allowed per lap, Le Mans teams could develop systems allowing more power. Saying that, Mclaren's F1 system is a good lesson in KERS. Reliable and works extremely effectively.

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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:42 pm

at le mans it would work differently as it would on 95% of road cars, the batteries will be used for econemy and not more power

It's a shame really the cars are so restricted now, back 20 years ago they have much more power, also double what a current car has.
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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:51 pm

I think so too. To my mind, I think the top-line prototype's (Audi, Peugeot, Acura) are spectacular machines. I stoot at Bridge corner last year at LMS, and the speed the Peugeot's took through their was sensational. Funnily enough, I also stood their during an F1 test, and the Peugeot still looked quick - if not as quick.

I personally believe that these prototypes should wow the public with their speed, sound and technology - freedom should be rewarded. Car makers are interesting in Le Mans, but these new restrictions may change their minds. And in terms of technology I mean safety too. The prototypes in my mind, are fine as they are.

As cornering speeds have increased, so has safety. I think if the ACO are concerned about safety, they need to invest in new innovations, the clever way, rather than just restricting the cars, the lazy way.

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PostSubject: Re: LE MANS 2010 rules   Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:00 pm

I just read (on a site called mariantic, I visit a lot for updates) it says simley lmp2 is the new lmp1. Now that means, porsche spyder, acura arx-01b, lola coupe. The manufacters already have cars there...
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