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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Thu May 21, 2009 11:46 pm

Sav 1 wrote:
But I'm not saying lets replace all the lovely road courses, as my dream calendar clearly shows, I am actually including all the classic tracks you have mentioned. Certainly one extreme to another (all road courses except Monaco, to nearly all street circuits) would be very silly.

I personally think they are great, except Valencia. But variety is the spice of life.
We'll agree to disagree. Smile I'd have one street circuit in Monaco plus the semi-street circuit of Melbourne. That's about it. But we're going round in circles so I'll stop countering you now. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Fri May 22, 2009 12:04 am

cerca_trova wrote:


horses and all, I do agree more proper tracks during the day would be better, but I also belive that cancelling f1 and replacing it with an lmp1 world championship is an even better idea


horses and courses make different we make.

People would die of boredom, honestly.

Nobody is going to sit through six hours of cars just going around and not overtaking each other - because the time differences of LMP1 cars are so huge. That is why a lot of people watch F1, because the races are just over an hour and a half - for mass audiences - that is about the limit of their attention span.

F1 will be ace next year, all the big names, and new privateers.

Sportscars aren't perfect at all, apart from Le Mans, ALMS and Grand-Am - no other sportscar series has a hope in hell in appealing to a mass audience, especially for long durations of time.

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Fri May 22, 2009 3:28 am

i think you've missed my point here

I meant throw the current f1 in the bin, replace it with lmp1 and have 2 hour races for the most part with some longer races like le mans.

Anyway, the point was everyone likes something different. I happen to like valencia (street circuit) which no one else does. On the opther hand I happen to agree that there are enough of them already and we don't need more.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Sat May 23, 2009 2:48 am

I fail to see how LMP1 cars would entertain the general public more than F1. First and foremost, to create some kind of decent racing, like we are getting in F1 this year, you need a close grid. F1 is extremely competitive and close this year, with fractions of a second so critical. I am sorry, LMP1 does not have this at all. There are huge time differences of all P1 cars because LMP1 runs on two tier rules, one set for petrol, the other for diesel.

An LMP1 field would be spread out within 10 minutes, the general public would fall asleep.

Yes I understand that everybody likes something different, but what I am trying to do, is be realistic. My calendar and thoughts on what the public want are realistic.

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Sat May 23, 2009 3:00 am

the fia don't give a stuff about the general public.

put it this way, sportscars done right will always be better than f1, thats my opion and the opion of a many other people. I know your not going to agree, for which I don't care.

Let me put it one more way. This week is the biggest event in all of germany and it's the nurburgring 24 hour. I'll be following that and if theres an f1 race i just won't care.

Now before you argue with that, I just don't care about f1 enough....


sorry ranting over.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Sat May 23, 2009 3:13 am

But sort of opinion is that?

So what your basically saying:

you don't appreciate the development race, the talent of hustling an F1 car around the streets of Monaco and the buzz and glamour?

You are far too biased, you just think sportscar racing is just all marvellous and F1 is evil stupid blah blah blah. In case you had not noticed, there is no other championship which has such high levels of innovation and development. No other series has quite the talent, the drama, the excitement and adrenaline of F1.

I love sportscar racing, all motorsport in fact. I like ALMS, Grand-Am and Le Mans. These are series worth watching, and the Nurburgring 24 hours.

You hate F1 for such irrational reasons. I watch F1 for the talent that goes into making and driving these cars. I like almost all types of four wheeled racing.

Sportscars has always done right?

-Two tier regulations
-allowed diesels
-the fields are much further apart
-Britain leads the way in F1
-privateers have little chance of winning Le Mans

Its like LMS, nobody can explain to me why its better. Oh sorry no LMS is automatically better, despite the racing is dire.

There are faults with every racing series, I suggest you get used to it. The suggestion that sportscar racing is just so brilliant and exciting is rather deluded. There are some forms of sportscar racing which is ace, nearly all are completely dire, have crap coverage and are Sleep

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Sat May 23, 2009 3:26 am

I used to love f1, i've even tried more recentley.

given the choice i'd always watch a gt race.


For me f1 isn't that interesting.

the deveoplment race isn't that interesting, what technology. There isn't even a car with a diesel engine (ok i'm taking the piss) The point is theres a spec engine right now, v8 18k limit. Wheres the v12's where the 4 pot turbo cars?? .


I know were all taking the piss but someone is trying to get an electric car to le mans. That won't happen in f1 if it's not in the rules.

kers is a bit of a joke, being first generation, where as the second generation kers on the ginetta zytek, will go into a road car soon-ish.


for me f1 has no glamour just hangers on.

i CAN'T EXPLAIN IT PROPERLY. sorry didn't mean to shout. my favourite racing cars are gt's, Porsche 997 for example. blt from the road car into a racer.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Sat May 23, 2009 3:30 am

for me f1 should be about the racing, show and tell if you will.

the best looking single seat race car right now and it happens to produce some of the best racing is the formula master car.


f1 should have technical freedom, so you can build a car to any shape. Like mercedes did in the thirtys (i think it was mercedes it could have aurto union.)
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Sat May 23, 2009 5:02 am

Sav 1 wrote:
I fail to see how LMP1 cars would entertain the general public more than F1. First and foremost, to create some kind of decent racing, like we are getting in F1 this year, you need a close grid. F1 is extremely competitive and close this year, with fractions of a second so critical. I am sorry, LMP1 does not have this at all. There are huge time differences of all P1 cars because LMP1 runs on two tier rules, one set for petrol, the other for diesel.

An LMP1 field would be spread out within 10 minutes, the general public would fall asleep.

I agree... LMS is a series that appeals to many motorsports fans but most TV sports fans wouldn't be that interest.

There's several reasons for this.

The first is the length of the races. The average viewer is quite happy to give 2 hours to sport (eg. football, 20 Twenty Cricket, F1 etc.) but get much longer and peoples' lives get in the way. Things to do, places to go - not to mention attention span.

Secondly, there's the multiple race aspect of it. So many different championships in one race, it'd confuse your average punter who just drops in now and again. And the fact it's hard to keep track of who is where. At Silverstone I was thoroughly confused - it wasn't until Cadpig explained the lights system on the side of the cars that I started to get a grip as to who was where.

There's something very exciting about F1, and the glamour and the noise of those engines can't fail to create a sense of excitement and occasion. Give me an F1 car going at 200mph with a screaming engine over a diesel-powered LMP1 and I know which one I'd choose.

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Sat May 23, 2009 5:26 am

a very well reason opion, in this case I bow to you mr miller.




ok, how about a champcar europe??

up to 2 hopur races, lmp1 spec cars but... Pescarolo 01, Lola B08/60, Dome S102, Lola B07/17


Basically customer LMP1 chassis, with a champcar format in europe??
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Sat May 23, 2009 5:26 am

F1 has way more freedom than any other series. That is why teams are always bringing out new aero packages with different wings to generate more downforce, efficiency etc - I don't see any other series allowing that. And to topple that, the field is so close.

What technology and innovation? Its funny how the Audi and Acura both look like F1 cars from the front. What does this prove? F1 is influential. F1's aerodynamics can also be applied to the aerospace industry.

Sportscars isn't influencing anything.

Also, sportscars has completely failed to bring new fuels in. Diesel is not new at all, sportscars just latches on to something and uses it for PR. F1 is loud and proud with no green bollocks.

Quote :
for me f1 should be about the racing, show and tell if you will.

Like LMS then? That racing is dire, in F1 you see far more interesting racing. LMS now a tragic series, the racing is completely sterile.

Quote :
f1 should have technical freedom, so you can build a car to any shape. Like mercedes did in the thirtys (i think it was mercedes it could have aurto union.)

That would be a complete disaster, you would have a situation like in LMS, where the time differences are huge between cars

Huge time differences between cars = dire racing.

I am sorry, motor racing is supposed to EXCITE. What is so exciting to see cars literally miles apart? For me, this holds no appeal whatsoever.

Quote :
There's something very exciting about F1, and the glamour and the noise of those engines can't fail to create a sense of excitement and occasion. Give me an F1 car going at 200mph with a screaming engine over a diesel-powered LMP1 and I know which one I'd choose.

100 % agreed - I cannot believe how much I agree.

I am sorry, LMS has no sense of occasion whatsoever. F1 is like a five star hotel, its lovely and everybody wants to be there. LMS has no buzz whatsoever.

And how many people attend LMS races compared to F1 races? LMS simply does not appeal to the public. In fact, F1 is doing a public service - its giving what the general public want.

Sportscar racing is totally responsible for the introduction of increasing use of diesel racing cars. Sportscars are responsible for losing one crucial element of racing: noise. F1 cars, no matter what era, have sounded amazing. They excite the public.

You can slate F1 all you like, but has the sport forgotten that a screaming petrol engine is essential for excitement to truly ‘wow’ the public. No. Has sportscars forgotten this? Yes.

LMS is truly dreadful in terms of racing. Give those cars an hour, and they would be miles apart, with no racing whatsoever.

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Sat May 23, 2009 5:27 am

cerca_trova wrote:
a very well reason opion, in this case I bow to you mr miller.




I've been extremely reasonable. I'm not the one who is saying sportscars are so brilliant and F1 is totally rubbish.

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Sat May 23, 2009 5:30 am

The Le Mans Series is 5 years old, I would watch The Le Mans Series over F1.

Formula 1 killed the World sportscar champion, or more particually Bernie did by stealing all the teams.

I don't believe F1 is rubbish it's better than football, it's just about 10% as it could be. The LMS is about 0.1% as good as it will be.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Sat May 23, 2009 5:36 am

LMS needs changing drastically, the racing is dire 96 % of the time. Its a seriouslu worrying situation. F1 is like a rollercoaster, with drivers locking up, smoking their tyres and power sliding. LMS has none of this.

So you like watching cars just trundling around with no passing, oh sorry, one pass in three hours. Hmm.... Wink lol!

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Sat May 23, 2009 5:38 am

we've got to stop this and accept were not going to agree.

Yes I like the Le Mans Series, and F1 is alright

You like F1

were going to have to live with that until something else changes
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Sat May 23, 2009 5:40 am

I can live with that. I find it fun debating with you, there is nothing personal. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Sat May 23, 2009 5:43 am

I do think there is an age thing, when your young you watch f1, then you grow older and either you get sportscars and it's a drug. Once you get nothing else will do. Others grow and never get the sportscar thing and stay with f1.

I have to admit the audi's and peugeot's sound quite good to me, A little quite amoungst the noise can be good, I think.
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Sat May 23, 2009 5:45 am

Hmm, last year when I was at LMS, I would not say that the Peugeot sounded good - compared to the petrol prototypes!

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Sat May 23, 2009 5:48 am

no, the quite was noise amoungst the noise was nice almost releif
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Mon May 25, 2009 4:19 am

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Mon May 25, 2009 7:55 am

Err, I don't get what I am supposed to be seeing?

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Mon May 25, 2009 8:19 pm

it's f1 but on radical sr9's farao
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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:56 am

It sounds as if the idea of a Rome Grand Prix has moved once step closer to reality, Bernie has reserved this trademark: "Gran Premio di Roma": http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090602145202.shtml

This had better be a night race, I don't want it in the day time. The proposed circuit layout is extremely impressive with a number of genuine passing opportunties.

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:38 am

oh dear Rolling Eyes

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PostSubject: Re: 2012 Rome Grand Prix circuit revealed   Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:29 pm

Guessing this is byebye Monza then Sad
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