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PostSubject: I miss this   Wed May 06, 2009 9:28 am

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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Wed May 06, 2009 9:30 am

What the

R8?
Michele Alboreto?
Or the run down to the "esses"?

lol! lol!

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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Wed May 06, 2009 9:32 am

all of them a bit, but mainly the run down to the esses, for me it was the icon of le mans. The cars would crest under the dunlop bridge and then you'd see them run down the hill, it was iconic (for me anyway)
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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Wed May 06, 2009 9:54 am

cerca_trova wrote:
all of them a bit, but mainly the run down to the esses, for me it was the icon of le mans. The cars would crest under the dunlop bridge and then you'd see them run down the hill, it was iconic (for me anyway)

For sure I miss all of them too...

but yes the run down to the Esses has been mucked up so badly, it is such a shame that they did it for the bikes, as it has ruined it for the cars. I don't know why they they could not leave it as it was for the cars and do some curves for the bikes, and just seperate using cones or something.

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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Wed May 06, 2009 7:20 pm

it's not that great for bike racing, braking downing hill while trying to corner is very very difficult. It was a bad idea in my book, more run off would have been better
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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Thu May 07, 2009 4:32 am

The R8: powered by proper fuel - sounded fooking awesome

The R10: powered by black sludge that is only fit for buses, trains and tug boats - and makes no noise.

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

(diesel is okay for small road cars, I suppose Wink )

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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Sun May 10, 2009 4:15 pm

Sav 1 wrote:
The R8: powered by proper fuel - sounded fooking awesome

The R10: powered by black sludge that is only fit for buses, trains and tug boats and winning Sebring twice and Le Mans three times in a row - and makes no noise.

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

(diesel is okay for small road cars and trucks, I suppose Wink )

Fixed that for you there Wink
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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Sun May 10, 2009 7:05 pm

cadpig wrote:
Sav 1 wrote:
The R8: powered by proper fuel - sounded fooking awesome

The R10: powered by black sludge that is only fit for buses, trains and tug boats and winning Sebring twice and Le Mans three times in a row - and makes no noise.

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

(diesel is okay for small road cars and trucks, I suppose Wink )

Fixed that for you there Wink
scratch study lol!
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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Sun May 10, 2009 7:18 pm

cadpig wrote:
Sav 1 wrote:
The R8: powered by proper fuel - sounded fooking awesome

The R10: powered by black sludge that is only fit for buses, trains and tug boats and winning Sebring twice and Le Mans three times in a row - and makes no noise.

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

(diesel is okay for small road cars and trucks, I suppose Wink )

Fixed that for you there Wink

Audi don't quite understand the essence of motorsport, noise is such a great part of racing - nothing like a big noisy petrol engine - or ethonal.

Audi are just there to show us how wonderful diesel is. Rolling Eyes Despite diesel cars started to advance way before Audi came in with the R10.

BMW and Porsche understand motorsport's true values, Audi will just do whatever they think sells the most cars.

Oh and by the way, the R8 is way more successful than the R10 and R15. lol! lol! lol!

The PETROL R8 was so good it didn't need replacing for ages, the washing machine R10 needed replacing after three years!

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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Sun May 10, 2009 7:22 pm

And if diesel is so great as Audi suggests, why haven't they made a diesel RS-model - or a diesel R8?

Because deep down Audi know, petrol is best. Its a bit contradictory, they harp on how good diesel is - so why not make diesel RS models and a diesel R8 - production wise? These are Audi's most extreme road cars, yet they don't make them diesel-powered. Hmmm... Wink

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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Sun May 10, 2009 8:38 pm

they were working on Audi R8 V10 TDI?? i remember seeing the concept.

The Audi R10 need to be replaced because peugeot came with fastest car.....Audi new R15 sounds better
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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Sun May 10, 2009 8:41 pm

cadpig wrote:
Sav 1 wrote:
The R8: powered by proper fuel - sounded fooking awesome

The R10: powered by black sludge that is only fit for buses, trains and tug boats and winning Sebring twice and Le Mans three times in a row - and makes no noise.

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

(diesel is okay for small road cars and trucks, I suppose Wink )

Fixed that for you there Wink


lol! lol! Clapping
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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Sun May 10, 2009 10:44 pm

they should bring back group C & remove the first chicane on the Mulsanne Smile



bounce

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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Sun May 10, 2009 11:08 pm

Big-AL wrote:
they should bring back group C & remove the first chicane on the Mulsanne Smile
bounce

Why just the first chicane?

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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Sun May 10, 2009 11:31 pm

Sav 1 wrote:
Audi don't quite understand the essence of motorsport, noise is such a great part of racing - nothing like a big noisy petrol engine - or ethonal.
The problem is that I think that going fast is more important than the noise, and I am not alone. In fact from a marketing point of view I would say that Audi have hit the nail on the head as they now have proof that a diesel powered car can be fast, reliable, economical and quiet, and for some unknown reason most people like quiet road cars and know that race cars are noisy, so if the race car is quiet can you imagine how quiet they think the road cars are.

Sav 1 wrote:
Audi are just there to show us how wonderful diesel is. Rolling Eyes Despite diesel cars started to advance way before Audi came in with the R10.

BMW and Porsche understand motorsport's true values, Audi will just do whatever they think sells the most cars.
While I agree that the diesel engine has advances a long way in a short time (take a look at some of the technical aspects of the Land Rover TD5 engine and sit back in awe at it's potential) I suspect that the reason for Audi making a diesel LMP1 car has more to do with regulations than selling cars, even if selling cars is the ultimate goal.

As for BMW and Pork, if BMW were in LMP1 I bet they would have a diesel LMP1 car for the same reason as Audi, and the last time I checked Pork owned Audi, so it stands to reason that Pork "will just do whatever they think sells the most cars".

Sav 1 wrote:
Oh and by the way, the R8 is way more successful than the R10 and R15. lol! lol! lol!

The PETROL R8 was so good it didn't need replacing for ages, the washing machine R10 needed replacing after three years!
The R8 was not the same car at the start of its development cycle that it was at the end, also it raced for nearly a decade and had (for the most part) no real competition while the R10 has been racing for three years and had the Pug pushing it nearly all the way.

It is too early to tell with the R15.
Sav 1 wrote:
And if diesel is so great as Audi suggests, why haven't they made a diesel RS-model - or a diesel R8?

Because deep down Audi know, petrol is best. Its a bit contradictory, they harp on how good diesel is - so why not make diesel RS models and a diesel R8 - production wise? These are Audi's most extreme road cars, yet they don't make them diesel-powered. Hmmm... Wink

If the V10 in the R15 is as experimental as Audi claim then it stands to reason that so are the technologies involved and Audi, who pride themselves on safety and reliability, are not going to make a road car that is going to compromise that reputation. When the technologies are reliable for 250,000 miles they will be designed into the road cars.

vingt quatre - 24 wrote:
Big-AL wrote:
they should bring back group C & remove the first chicane on the Mulsanne Smile
bounce

Why just the first chicane?

Good question. I loved watching the cars negotiate the kink at full speed, and the slipstream battles remain the unique in motorsport.
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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Sun May 10, 2009 11:48 pm

vingt quatre - 24 wrote:
Big-AL wrote:
they should bring back group C & remove the first chicane on the Mulsanne Smile
bounce

Why just the first chicane?


both are there for safety, so keep the second one to slow the cars down before the Mulsanne corner, most of the drivers who drove before the chicanes were put in say that the track is now more like a F1 track & they also used to be able to relax a bit more at night.

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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Sun May 10, 2009 11:55 pm

Big-AL wrote:
vingt quatre - 24 wrote:
Big-AL wrote:
they should bring back group C & remove the first chicane on the Mulsanne Smile
bounce

Why just the first chicane?


both are there for safety, so keep the second one to slow the cars down before the Mulsanne corner, most of the drivers who drove before the chicanes were put in say that the track is now more like a F1 track & they also used to be able to relax a bit more at night.
But that safety reason could be compensated for within the Group C rules, they take away a bit of fuel and viola, problem solved. Cool
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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Mon May 11, 2009 12:01 am

well yes, i think that the classes are getting to close to each other now, GT1's beating LMP2's & LMP2's beating LMP1's & the difference should be much bigger, have LMP2 for the cheaper option & the LMP1's have much more freedom but talk to manufactures to see what they would like to enable more manufactures to get involved in LeMans Smile

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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Mon May 11, 2009 1:47 am

1 BMW were the first major manufacter to win a major race with a diesel, sorry sav. 2 diesels bmw m3 were entered by BMW into the Nurburgring Nordschleife 24 hour winning it out right in 1999 I believe. Just Porsche left on that list.

2The 2009 rules for le mans are designed to make a bigger different between the classes. Traditionally GT1 cars have always beaten LMP2 cars at le mans. 3 years ago the Pratt & Miller Corvette C6R finished 4 out right at le mans
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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Mon May 11, 2009 2:35 am

Quote :
The problem is that I think that going fast is more important than the noise, and I am not alone. In fact from a marketing point of view I would say that Audi have hit the nail on the head as they now have proof that a diesel powered car can be fast, reliable, economical and quiet, and for some unknown reason most people like quiet road cars and know that race cars are noisy, so if the race car is quiet can you imagine how quiet they think the road cars are.

Hit the nail on the head? How exactly? I'm going to say this once again, the potential in diesel engines was found far before Audi came along to Le Mans with TDI. BMW's 330d road car in 2000 kicked ass - that was reliable, economical and quiet.

So whats new? BMW and Audi with their road car engines showed that diesel can be close to petrol in terms of performance years before.

Audi's TDI's were decent before that too, so why do Audi need to show this on the race track? The potential of diesel? Its already been found. The proof of diesel was found far before TDI victory in 2006. Plus, if Porsche were to make a kick ass petrol LMP1 car - they would thrash Audi.

Marketing is the wrong word anyway, its PR. The marketing department concentrates on finding out what customers want. Noise is an integral part of motor racing, and these core values must not be ignored.

People at the racing circuit want to be thrilled, they do not want to hear some washing machines going around. This is motorsport, very different to road cars.

Quote :
As for BMW and Pork, if BMW were in LMP1 I bet they would have a diesel LMP1 car for the same reason as Audi, and the last time I checked Pork owned Audi, so it stands to reason that Pork "will just do whatever they think sells the most cars".

How? BMW have clearly shown they will not make factory racing cars, they have had many opportunities to do so - but have not. They understand motorsport’s true values you see. They did make a 320d for the Nurburgring 24 hours, but did not put a wankfest PR campaign all over it like Audi. And they did not make another diesel factory car after that.



Audi: “LOOK AT OUR TDI, ISN’T IT AMAZING!!!”

BMW: “Okay, lets see what we can do with diesel – but not put a cynical PR campaign on it”.

As for Porsche, you need to read more car news. Porsche are looking to smaller turbo-charged petrol for the near future, not particularly diesels. Just because Audi is doing something, it does not mean that Porsche will do the same.

And anyway, in terms of differentiating brands. Both brands would not have have LMP1 diesel cars, and it really doesn't suit Porsche's image either. Porsche haven’t suddenly started making diesel sportscars have they?

Quote :
If the V10 in the R15 is as experimental as Audi claim then it stands to reason that so are the technologies involved and Audi, who pride themselves on safety and reliability, are not going to make a road car that is going to compromise that reputation. When the technologies are reliable for 250,000 miles they will be designed into the road cars.

Eh??? That is rather bizzare. Whenever did I say that Le Mans engines should be used in Audi's road cars.

This is what I am saying:

Audi: "look how good diesel is, its amazing!!!!!!"

Me: "If its so good, why not make production TDI RS models and a diesel R8?

Why won't they make diesel RS models, or a diesel R8? Because customers do not want diesel R8's, Audi know this - so they can quit their PR bollocks about TDI. They won't use it on their most extreme production cars, if Audi were so confident about diesel - they would have made a diesel RS model by now (a RS4 TDI, RS6 TDI etc). But they don't.

I'm not just saying this, BMW's road car diesels are more powerful, have more torque, better MPG and are greener. So why is Audi harping on about diesel then? While Audi does all the PR bollocks, BMW quitely beavers away. Why won't BMW or Mercedes-Benz make diesel M or AMG models? Because nobody wants them.

And why the need to have a wankfest over diesel? Its still a fossil fuel at the end of the day - which has advanced anyway.

Diesel just kills the sheer sound of a racing car, I have heard a variety of machinery over the years at the circuit and they all sound brilliant. Diesel just kills this sensation completely. And for Audi to make out like diesel is something new and amazing is pure PR bollocks.

Although I do remain, diesel is fine for ordinary cars. However for motorsport, NO WAY.

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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Mon May 11, 2009 2:47 am

isn't audi doing quite well atm despite the lack of people buying cars, there market share seems to be going up, while toyota are making a loss. Perhaps toyota should come back to le mans they might sell more cars

There will be a diesel r8 sooner or later
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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Mon May 11, 2009 3:08 am

Audi have sold far fewer cars in the first quarter compared to last year though, however I will not hold that against them - virtually every car maker is experiencing that at the moment.

BMW is still the world's premium car maker, selling the most prestige cars.

There won't be a diesel R8, they canned it. It was a concept to see what the public reaction would be - it wasn't good. I can see what people mean, people want supercars to be noisy like a Lambo or Ferrari - not like a vaccum cleaner.

The fact of the matter is, TDI was invented way before 2006 - and made fine diesels.

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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Mon May 11, 2009 3:13 am

Embarassed audi r8 diesel canned Sad I wanted one


the r8 petrol is very quite (from what I have heard, saw one yesterday, very nice and very quite.


Last edited by cerca_trova on Mon May 11, 2009 4:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Mon May 11, 2009 3:27 am

cerca_trova wrote:
tdi is better becasue of racing



No it isn't, Audi have been developing their diesels well for years.

If Audi are suggesting diesel is so good, they should also use it in their fastest production cars. It makes sense. TDI wins: the most extremely road cars get it.

One problem, RS customers don't want it. Well done customers. cheers

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PostSubject: Re: I miss this   Mon May 11, 2009 4:29 am

cerca_trova wrote:
tdi is better becasue of racing

I wish they were, however the last real leap forward in diesel technology was by Land Rover (the TD5) and would have been more successful had the people designing the wiring loom not put it in a place where it would melt.

On a side note I have to wonder how many production cars have pneumatic valve springs?
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